A big THANKS to all who have helped me find a desent load for this rifle. WELL now the range report! With all the info given I decided to use RE 22 with the 180 SMK. Started loads at 66.8 went up in .5 grain increments to 68.3,all hand weighted,66.8,67.3,67.8,68.3 using the RE 22 and 180 SMK's and Federal GM210M standard large rifle primers. Welll the results are...67.8 put 5 rounds into right at an inch with 3 of the 5 I could cover with a penny!
Now the problem! All four of the loads listed above were beginning to show high pressure signs especailly the 68.3 which was beginning to crater the primers!!! I'm looking at this and going 'what the....' as this is WELL below the max for this powder/bullet combination of 71 grains!!
For reminders this is a Remington 700 SPS with now about 80 rounds fired. The brass is Winchester, these particular rounds on their 3rd reload and the brass itself showing no problems. They have been trimmed and preped.
OK guys suggestions as to what the problem could be??? Talked to a couple of knowledgeable folks I know and nobody had any thoughts!
Thnaks as always for the assist!

Sarge

How are you setitng the headspace? Just the sizing die instructions, or some other method?

Jaywalker

Sizing die instructions (Lee Collet Dies). OAL on the rounds was 2.800 per Sierra Manual.

Sarge

Sarge, I've loaded 4 different 300 WSM's and in only 1 could I comfortably load more than 69.0grs with 180gr bullets. The 1 exception shot 71.0grs with Moly'd 180gr TSX's.
If you are getting 2950-3000fps somewhere in the 2950-3000 fps range quit there and be happy. If you are gettting much at all over 3000fps you either have a longer barrel or higher pressures................DJ

DJ, don't want to shoot that high! Don't know what the fps was on these loads but as I said above 67.8 was the "sweet spot" but was beginning to show high pressure signs even at that lower powder charge. Im just trying to figure out why! Mayber I'm going to end up with a different load...again! I've never had this much trouble finding a good load to shoot from any rifle!

Sarge

SargeRN ,
Cratered primers may or may not be a pressure sign . What other signs have you seen ?
Is there any increased resistance when you raise the bolt handle on a fired case ? If yes then you're probably 1.5 grains or more over maximum for your rifle .
As compared to a FL sized , loaded round , do the fired cases rechamber easily or is there any noticeably greater resistance when you lower the bolt handle ? If not then your pressure is ok I'd suggest .

Sarge,

Bushchook's right, and that's where I was going with my question. Factory full-length sizing instructions tend to move the shoulder back more than I like. They want to ensure the cartridge will fit in the shortest chambers that makers produce. This tends to produce more headspace than I like, though, by definition, it will be safe. Excessive headspace can lead to cratered primers, and appear to be, but aren't always, excessive pressure.

Using your Lee neck-sizers, that isn't likely the problem, however. I had the same problem as you're describing with Lee Neck Sizers in my 6.5x55, and never did figure out what caused it - I just moved to full-length sizing dies and the problem went away.

One thing I don't like about Lee neck sizers is they don't bump the shoulder back at all. That's both an advantage and a disadvantage. It's certainly easier, with no lubing cases required. Neck sing can also be very accurate; you have zero headspace variation and a neck that hasn't been distorted by the expander plug.

Think about what's happening, though. The cartridge fires, and the case tries to fill up the chamber volume. Cases have slightly different properties, even in the same batch - thicker, or whatever. Some cases will fill the chamber volume sooner than others; since you aren't moving the shoulder back, these will be a little harder to close the bolt on. As they are successively reloaded, they'll all be hard to chamber. This "hard to chamber" feeling is another way of saying that you're wearing the lugs or lug recesses on your bolt and receiver, which affects headspace permanently. As we've seen before, odd headspace gives odd "pressure" signs.

Since you asked, I'd say "buy some full length sizing dies, and use your neck sizer sparingly for your most-accurate, non-hunting, needs." RCBS dies are fine and don't cost an arm and a leg.

Jaywalker

Let me see if I can answer the questions. No the rounds were not hard to close the bolt on. Yes the bolt was getting harder to open with each increase in powder load. Also there was some "shine" to the cartridge base after being fired, if that made sense, that wasn't there prior to firing.
Just seems like I'm chasing a load that I can't find! Getting a little frustrating as these are the 10th to 12th different charges I've tried using 2 different powders and 2 different bullet weights. Don't know where to go from here!!

Sarge

Sarge,

My 300WSM prefers 70 gr 4831 with a 165 gr Nosler Part. For 180 gr, IMR4350 (don't have my notes in front of me for this load) has given me best results. I get very good hunting accuracy 1.5 inch @100 with either load and no high pressure signs.

I use 64.0 grains H4831SC in Winchester [fully-prepped] brass and CCI magnum primers. I use the Sierra 190 grain MatchKing, soft-seated and set .020 off the lands. I shot three into a ragged hole at 100 yards, then lost my nerve and wasted the group...

quote:

Originally posted by SargeRN:
Let me see if I can answer the questions. No the rounds were not hard to close the bolt on. Yes the bolt was getting harder to open with each increase in powder load. Also there was some "shine" to the cartridge base after being fired, if that made sense, that wasn't there prior to firing.
Sarge

Sarge, you have reached, and exceeded the reasonable maximum for that particular combination. It is now time to look elsewhere for fuel, RE25, IMR7828, or maybe one of the sc/ssc varieties. Shine marks are never a good thing, and indicate that brass has begin to flow. My guess is that this particular load is in excess of 65K psi and changes are in order.

Buckshot, I understand what you're saying! And kind of makes me wonder why the 5th edition Sierra states max of 71 grs for this bullet/powder combination. Guess your right though need to look at a different load/combination SOMETHING!!
:-)

Sarge

From what I am reading you have pressure issues. I have worked up loads for my WSM, both sporter and F class 1000 yard rife along with several others for the 175/180 gr. class bullets and eveyone of them have liked N550 in Win. brass with a Federal 210M primer. Start at about 59.5 gr. and work up to about 61 gr. I prefer to go .3 of a grain increments instead of .5 gr. velocties have ran from 2945 fps (24" barrel) 3080 fps from a 30" barrel. Accuracy has been easily .5 MOA in all rifles. No pressure signs have been experienced in any of the rifles both factory and custom. You may just have a fast lot of RL-22. Which from my experience with RL-22 in a 6.5 X 284 seems to vary considerably from lot to lot. I haven't keep track of how many different lots of N550 I have been through but the load that each indvidual rifle liked has never changed when I changed lots of powder. As always work up and be observant. Hope this helps some.

PaPa 260

Sarge-
I was just thinking about similar problems I had with my 7m/m Rem about 15 years ago. Tried every recipe, and was frustrated at every turn. Tried the, then new anyway, V-V powders and presto, speed and power just like the book says you should have. My point ...N-170 is about the slowest canister powder available, and if it is 1/2 as good as N-160 or 3N37, I'd be happy.

I have burned a bunch of RL 19 and 22 powders, and I'm not happy with their lot to lot variation. I can say much the same about H1000 too, but that hasn't been my experience with IMR, or VV powders. With few exceptions, I use mostly IMR and VV powders and am happy with all tried. IMR may very well be better today since Hodgdon has given some of them the sc/ssc treatment.

OK just did two things. First went to see if I had any N160, by golly I do! And looked at VV website for some load data, well that stank! They only list 3 bullet weights for the .300 WSM 165, 185 and 200. But they DO list the N160. Now who has a better VV reloading guide that the online one?? Does it list anything more than those 3 bullet weights?? This was the Jan 2004 online guide. If they list 175 and 180 gr bullets give me the start and max for each using the N160 and I'll try again!!
AND another thing I discovered with a little bit of looking around the 5th edition Sierra states you can use the 168gr MK with VARGET. Now I also discovered I still have a few 168's laying around and of course I've got LOTS of Varget! Anyone tried this one???

Sarge

Sarge- try Steve's pages...
http://stevespages.com/308_31_180.html

H4350 works well for me. Are you using Winchester Mag Primers? They are hotter than others and will get some cratering. I switched to CCI mag and the problem went a way.
If you are doing everyting right then your barrel may have been cut with an older reamer therefore it could be a hair tight which could restrict your loads.
Good Luck

quote:

5th edition Sierra states you can use the 168gr MK with VARGET. Now I also discovered I still have a few 168's laying around and of course I've got LOTS of Varget! Anyone tried this one???

168 SMK, 55 grains Varget, WLRM, 2.95 OAL (at the lands)

Try the hodgdon website...they have a very good coverage of the 300WSM, 110-220 grain bullets. They were the first (and only when I bought mine) to publish decent 300WSM data, I found good loads with them, and haven't bettered them yet.

That's my ego load...when I want to shoot pretty small groups to prove to myself that it isn't me ruinig the day at the range. IIRC 58 grains is max...but check that. Enjoy!

Buckshot,CDH Thank You. CDH Just looked at Hodgdons web site and they do not list Varget for any weight above 165. Interesting thing they do list H380, nice ball powder meters VERY well, for everything 168,175 and 180. Have a couple pounds of that laying around that may be worth a try.
Dwight was actually using Federal GM210M large rifle primers not magnum primers. And when I do use magnums its Federal GM215M I've used the Federal Gold Medal primers for so long only other primers I think I have, for rifles, is some CCI 200 standard rifle primers.

Sarge

Make sure you haven't built-up a copper mine in your bore. This can spike pressure. Wipe-out is good for this.

Doble, nope total cleaning after every range session BEFORE leaving the range, this includes removing any copper fouling.
Thanks for the different thought!

Sarge

In the three 300 WSM's I've loaded for H4350 always came out on top with standard primers. Run 180's at 2,950 to 2,975 in a 24" bbl.

quote:

CDH Just looked at Hodgdons web site and they do not list Varget for any weight above 165

I use the 165 data for the 168 SMK with no problems. 3 grains of bullet...not much difference! Back off a grain for max powder if you are uncomfortable, but changing bullets/primers/barrels/seating depth can have a similar effect on pressure as going from 165 to 168 grain bullets.

All the usual cautions apply!