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| <Big Stick> |
I am a fan of coated bullets and shoot them in every one of my barrels. I'm convinced it will grant an increase in speed and allow more mileage between cleanings(without neglect). It is easy to try and you'll only know,when you weigh the results for yourself. You know what you have now and can use that in an open minded comparison,with events you personally control and evaluate............ | ||
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| <bigcountry> |
Good advise Big Stick. I am in the process and working with A-Frames, but was thinking about the pain of cleaning between 8 or so shots to get reliable data for my loads. Your right about trying for myself, can't count the times, I have heard a rumor or opinion, and tried it for myself and didn't see anything like that. Do you have to use any moly cleaner and how often between shots. Or do you just to it between shooting sessions? | ||
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| <George Capriola> |
I went to the range the other day with a feeling that I was forgetting something. After setting up, I realized I forgot the cleaning rods!  I shoot moly coated bullets in my .17, and figured I'd just shoot until accuracy went to hell. 50 rounds later, the .17 was still holding just under 1" at 100 yards. It made a believer out of me!  Regards, George. | ||
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| <Gary Rihn> |
quote: Probably won't change things nearly as much as going to moly. You'll in effect be starting again. Not meant to discourage you from moly, but I just thought it interesting. | ||
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| one of us |
I have never used coated bullets before but I have used MOLY PASTE, groups always magically shrunk, both rimfire and centerfire. Barrel fouls less and is easier to clean. | |||
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| <KentuckyFisherman> |
For what it's worth, Bigcountry, I used the Final Finish system on an AR-15 barrel a year or so ago and was quite satisfied with it. I made some other reloading changes at the same time, so I can't say for sure what improved things, but the barrel is definitely shooting better. If you're worried about eroding the throat on your rifle, all you have to do is only use the finer grade abrasive bullets in the Final Finish kit. It's explained in the instructions that come with the kit. The Final Finish system may not be for everyone and it definitely won't automatically improve every barrel. But if your groups start opening after 8-10 shots, you've got some serious fouling of some kind going on, so I don't see how the bore polishing kit can do anything but help. | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
bigcountry, I use Kroil,to cut moly and then clean in regular fashion. I don't clean until accuracy peters out and I know moly to benefit that,in my barrels. So I don't go scrubbing on a barrel,just to say I did it. If it is still shooting to it's capabilities,I leave it alone. So I'm of the opnion,that it is dependant upon the interior finish of your barrel and the intensity of the cartridge,that largely controls fouling issues. That will vary from rifle to rifle. You must also determine that for yourself. I often shoot over 500rds through 22 centerfires,between cleanings. Because they are still shooting good groups and that is what I weigh as being most important with a rifle. If you have determined without reservation,that your barrel is indeed pretty rough(indicative of severe fouling issues). I'd certainly give the final finish kit you mention a whirl. A very good friend did it to his S/S Model Seven in 260 and groups with X bullets,shrunk in half. Fouling greatly diminished too and he is sold on that process. I very much respect his opinion and have zero qualm recommending that therapy,for an obviously less than sterling bore. I think the final finish in conjunction with coated bullets,will allow you to focus a lot more on trigger time,as opposed to cleaning rod time.................. | ||
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| <HOG> |
I moly coat my bullets and think it is great but like it has been stated before, don't neglect cleaning. When the tube is due for a good cleaning hoppes 9 is good for the powder fouling and JB bore paste will scrub the rest out. After reapplying moly to the barrel make sure to clean out the chamber and store the gun barrel down until it is shot. That prevents moly from flowing back into the chamber. Also, remember that moly usually makes pressure go down so do some load developement to get your pressure and velocity back up to par. | ||
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| one of us |
I use moly primarily because it has significantly extended the usable life of my match rifles from around 3500 rounds to close to 5,000 rounds. When you clean your barrel with moly its important that you don't overclean the thing. It is not necessary nor is it desireable to completely remove the moly residue in your bore. You want it there! Moly almost always will result in reduced velocity as there is less friction in the bore...hence less pressure...ergo less velocity assuming comparable loads... For one of the best no-BS articles I have seen on moly coating go to: http://www.jarheadtop.com/books.html# Find the book entitled: Care Cleaning and Sportsmanship and click on sample chapter 4: Moly Coating... If you talk to the folks at Sinclair Intl. (who cater to bench rest shooters) they will tell you that Moly has been proven to degrade accuracy in some rifles. This may be true for a bench-rest rifle but the benefits significantly outweigh the costs for lots of other applications where absolute mechanical accuracy is not the only objective. | |||
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| one of us |
Excellent reading thanks ninerod | |||
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| <bigcountry> |
Thanks guys, I think I will give the final fisnish kit a chance. I already have them loaded and I bought the thing. I kinda agravating when I spend half the time shooting and the other cleanin. | ||
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| one of us |
Hey bigcountry, There was an excellent article in "Rifle" magazine just a month or so ago about various kinds of Lapping. Your concern about moving the throat back is something that concerns me too. As you got toward the end of that article, it mentioned using a Bore Brush wrapped with a patch to hold the varying degrees of abrasive. I'm of the opinion this is the best way to go and if done correctly you will go through a good many new Bore Brushes. I did one of my barrels using nothing but JB Compound. I reloaded the Brush every 10 strokes and needed to swap out the first brush after 50 strokes. Swapped the 2nd, 3rd and 4th brushes after 50 strokes too. By now the barrel had 200 strokes on it. Went to the 5th brush and it lasted a full 100 strokes, because the "roughness" in the Bore had decreased enough so that it was not wearing down the Brush as quickly. Stopped after 300 strokes and it did fine. However, I'm looking into getting some various grades of "Garnet Abrasive" which I've found out is the "ONLY" non-embedding abrasive available to us. Brownell's has 600 and 800 grit Garnet, but I want a bit more aggressive and some finer grit as well. Since you have the NECO Kit, you might want to consider just using the abrasives from it with Bore Brushes. Find the "Rifle" article if you can, it is excellent.
Here is a link to the very best article I've seen written on Moly. Not sure if the Link is still active or not, but it should be. It is a long article in "Precision Shooting". Be sure to note the number of rounds that NORMA got through the hot loaded 6.5mm "with no accuracy degredation" - AMAZING to me! http://www.precisionshooting.com/aug98.html ------------------ | |||
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| <Reloader66> |
Much has been written about Moly. Some Moly users make claims of improved accuray and firing as many rounds as they please without losing accuray or cleaning the bore. It is a fact you will consume more powder per round to get the same job done with a none Moly barrel. I am not a Moly user and see far more in print stating Moly caused the shooter more problems than it solved. None of my rifle barrels have had Moly in them and they shoot great and last as long as any barrel that has had Moly used in them. In my view Moly is just another factor in the quest for accuracy that is best left out of that equasion. It is a fact that the peak accuracy life of any rifle barrel is about 1,500 rounds. After that it is all down hill Moly or no Moly. Granted the rifle will still group well but never as well as those first 1,500 rounds. No matter what a Moly user may claim his rifle will do with the black stuff coating the inside of his bore. I see nothing posotive about using a product that forces me to burn more powder per round to get the same job done. If you use moly good luck you will need it. Moly is not the magic shooters potion some would like to believe it is not to mention having black fingers all the time. Factory bores are rough because no lapping of that bore is done by Factory rifle makers. If you practice a breakin regiment and give your rifles bore a hundred rounds to come around you will learn much and not risk ruining the throat prematurely. If your bore is so rough you feel you must firelap that bore you need to replace that barrel. Firelapping will destroy the throat of any bore in only a few rounds. The only way to get a qulaity barrel on any factory rifle is by having a Shilen, Krieger, Hart, or Lilja barrel installed on that action. | ||
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| <Don Martin29> |
Firelapping seems like a crude way of doing something. I have lapped barrels before just like Hot Core did and it worked very well and accuracy was restored. Bore pastes have been made for this for decades by Stoeger and JB and others. | ||
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| <KING> |
I've used moly also. Has anyone out there used Tungsten disulfide? Indust. Lube. sold by the name Danzac. I understand it's no longer sold, or sold under that name. Is it still available under another name or designation. Any help would be appreciated! This stuff has a hardness of RC30 and according to an indy. Lab. has a very slick Coeff. of friction. If it is still available I would like to compare it to moly. | ||
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one of us |
King, I found a source for the Tungsten disulfide powder. Here is the link. http://www.rosemill.com/lubricants.htm Nashcat | |||
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