Frustrating day at the range yesterday. Took the PPC out to play, and started having extraction problems with a load that's over a grain lower than the tested maximum.

The only thing different was the new box of Nosler ballistic tips -- same rifle, comparable temps, same brick of primers, same powder, same bushing, same neck tension.

Do we have to work up new loads when opening a new box of bullets now? Dutch.

You don't need to redo load developement but I have frequently found that bullets will vary from lot to lot.......this can mean that you can be seating your bullets closer to the lands than before and that will increase pressure quickly. I always check a new batch of bulets with my Stoney-Point tool.

Yup...and that isn't anything new...always drop down and re-work you loads with ANY change in components...

That's what I was afraid of. I expect it from someone like Barnes, but with 55 gr. B-tips, good grief, how hard is it to keep jacket thickness and lead hardness consistent. Between switching lots on the 322, keeping track of how many times I've fired the brass, and the lot of primers, now I got to worry about the (*^^&$#@!= lot of the bullets. Grumble, grumble, grumble.

And I'm mad about the bullets without the tips in it, too! Looks like Sierra gets another hard look. FWIW, Dutch.

I read some where that Nosler had done some work on the BT. The load you work up for this box may be OK next time. But like thew others are saying, every time you switch watch out.

He really didn't "switch". He just opened a new box of the same bullets as I understand.

I never had this happen but of course it could.

This is another reason to buy in volume making sure that all components, even bullets, are from the same lot number. I hate working up a load and running out of the primer, powder, bullet combination I've been using.

A while back I was loading some ball tips (I think in .243)and happened to chamber one of the newly loaded rounds. The bolt wouldn't close ez and after some research I found that the profile of the bullet had changed and affected the oal by .030". I compared part numbers on the box and they were the same. this was about 3-4 years ago--sounds like you just ran into the same thing!!

Don, I checked the OAL, and I'm jumping the bullets .08", so the distance to lands should have plenty (PLENTY) of give.

I've got some more loaded up at smaller charge weights, in once fired, trimmed cases and weighed charges. We'll find out. Dutch.

As far as temperature affecting pressure I think it would be how hot the ammunition got just before firing. There is a lot of sun now so I bring up this point. Just guessing.

Yes bullets vary from lot to lot. Powder and primers also vary. So your never going to get the same conditions and environment. Even letting the loaded round stay in a hot chamber can affect the way your ammo is going to shoot. I have seen 220 swift reload which Allan Hall (manufacture of bench rest actions) loaded for a prairie dog shoot we went to 2 years ago shoot just fine until the ammo sat in the sun for a while. He was using Hornady 75 grain bullets and they blew up once they left the barrel after sitting in the sun for a while. They shot fine earlier in the day. So your conditions can affect everything.

I am currently loading 5000 rounds of 6-284 for a Dog hunt we are going on later on this year and when I switched the lots of powder (56.0 grains of H1000) the powder charge was higher in the case than the old lot. So you have to be patient when loading and check everything in you load when it comes to new lots of brass, bullets, primers, and powder. Heat, humidity, pressure, everything is to be considered. That's all part of reloading.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame Nosler BAl. tips as they are the most outstanding bullet in the accuracy dept. that I have ever shot, and about everybody I know agrees with that, so I'd say their standard is better than anybody else short of Berger and specialty bullets....

I suspect you need to drop another grain or measure the bullets before you condemn them.

I work up loads in my rifles one time and I shoot them based on that for the rest of their life.....
I allow a little leeway but not a lot.

If some work up loads everytime they change a component they need to get a day job.

Dutch..it isn't the OAL of the loaded round you need to keep consistent, it is the measurement form the base of the cartridge to the ogive of the bullet...this is what determines the distance to the lands.

If you don't have something like the Stoney Point tool you need to get one.

Ray you're right about not checking everything all the time BUT I keep a good log and whenever I get a new batch of the old components (different lots) I always load a few up with my original starting load to see if it is consistent with the same charge as before. I try never to assume anything and while not quite as old as you (is anyone?) I hope to be someday and with all my extremeties still working.

I agree with DB Bill. You need to keep a log of you load when you change from one lot to another. I personally don't work up a load every time I change a component but I do keep a log so if my loads turn to crap then I know that there is a big possibility that the new component, mostly powder from my experience, is the problem. But if you don't pay attention to what your doing and don't keep a log you may not remember what was changed.

Yep, most of us who do shoot have day jobs. Some just take it more serious than others.

Hey, come on guys. I routinely check distance to lands, if for now I've taken this load up to over 29 grains of the same can of h322, with .01 jump, and now it is giving pressure at 28 and .08 jump. The only variables I can see is temp -- which I've accounted for, case length (which I don't think was a problem) or a dirty neck portion in the barrel (which I have hopefully scrubbed out, if it was there to begin with).

As soon as it gets below 95 degrees at shooting time, I'll let you know..... Dutch.

Do you have even one of the old bullets left? If so measure it's ogive with the Sinclair COL tool and compare it to the new bullets. If you don't have this tool then holding the bullets nose into a sized case neck would measure the ogive also.

I think it's temperature. With a camming power a bolt rifle has we don't see it until it gets really high.

Dutch...one other culprit I can think of might be neck tension changes caused by the necks of your brass getting work hardened. I probably anneal my cases a little more than most to avoid this as I've found that for the first few times a case is used the changes are relatively small and incremental but, depending on the brass, the necks seem to get "harder" all of a sudden so I use annealing as a preventative measure to increase consistency and give me one less thing to think about. Just a thought.

Don, this is not a bolt, it's a falling block which is VERY sensitive to pressure, compared to a bolt.

Don't have any of the old ones left. But with the .08" jump, even if the ogive changed a little, I just can't imagine even a .02 or even a .03 change making enough difference to find the pressure. Just doesn't make sense.

Bill, I had that thought, but these are 3x and 4x fired brass in a somewhat tight neck configuration (.006 movement per sizing), they *should* not be that hard, yet. They still seat "normal", anyway. I really, really, don't want to get into annealing, yet.

Privately, I'm putting my betting money on a dirty tight neck, pinching the brass. With .002 clearance on each side, it would be easy to get that much carbon or j.b.s stuck in there. Maybe this box of bullets is just a hair bigger, creating the problem?

Well, looks like today's not that warm, so I'll pop the round off tonight.

Thanks for all the help, guys! Dutch.

Dutch,

I think you're headed in the right direction.

I had a similar scenario recently, however, I believe mine was temperature related. Interestingly, it was also with Ballistic Tips, although I doubt that is the issue.

When I originally work up a load, I carefully measure with a Sinclair OAL tool. Once I have my load and a dummy round is created, I take a measurement with a Sinclair comparator. When I open a new box of bullets, I do not have to re-measure with the OAL tool, I simply set the seating die with the dummy round and give the first few cartridges a quick measure with the comparator. Quick and easy.

Good luck and keep us posted.

~Holmes

Well, looks like we may have all been barking up the wrong tree. The same bullet in the 1x fired brass popped right out, but the 3x brass was still quite sticky. The chrony showed that the velocities between them were all virtually the same, and as identical as can be to the "earlier" box. If the velocity is the same, pressure must be the same, so there must be something else.

These are *not* hot loads (+/-50,000 psi), but I still think this is a brass sizing issue. Redding is going to get a call for a small base body die. I've been using the regular version, and it must not be small enough to keep things within parameters, even at mild pressures.

I suppose I owe Nosler an apology..... Dutch.

Dutch, Right you are about the Barnes bullets not being the same. The new purchases I have made now have a shoulder instead of a taper from the base to point.

Also as we have discussed sometime ago, Redding dies and these Brown falling blocks just don't work well. I also had a problem with a Savage 7mmSTW and Redding dies. I sold my .223 Redding dies NIB before I even used them. Ya I know there the best out there, but you won't prove it by me guys.

I now either have Lees or RCBS that have replaced my Redding dies. Anybody need a set of 30-40 Krag dies??