Have a Dillon 550B and was unhappy with the FACTORY powder charges, (recalibrated per video instructions twice and still had .5 -.6 grains differences in powder charges)

Been using Hogdon 4198... Went and bought a Harrell's Precision "custom" powder measure and still had some inconsistency .2-.3 grain differential... Even sent the powder measure back to Linwood Harrell, (he is a trip)... He said it worked just fine...

This powder is all extruded... I have some Hogdon 322 for some 6 ppc... was hoping the smaller size powder would meter more accurately...

How about Vitouri (sp) 133 or 130 any comments ??? AB

[ 02-05-2003, 05:14: Message edited by: Abendicum ]

I've only got experience with Unique, Bullseye, 231, H110 in the Dillon. I did try 800x and made a total mess. The powder bridged and would give incomplete charges then drop the powder after the case at the bottom of the stroke or add the remainder to the next case.
Later this spring I'm hoping to reload 223 on the Dillon 650 and I'm thinking that a ball powder would the way to go.
Jim

The ball powders (H414, W748 etc) meter better than I can weigh them. The extruded powders vary quit a bit more, the bigger the grains the poorer they meter.

I think you're looking for a lot more accuracy than any meter can provide with extruded powder. Repeatability of .2 to .3 grain with extruded powder is excellent results in my book. The .5 to .6 is at the low end of what I've seen from extruded powders. IMR 4350 can be +-1g or more.

Abendicum: your results are very typical. i have been reloading for nearly 40 years and i have never gotten significantly better results than you are getting. i hear a lot of guys say they get 0.1 gr consistency using a powder measure. i think they are stretching it just a little. extruded powder doesn't meter any worse for you than it does for everyone else. if you want to get more exacting results, set your measure a little light and then trickle powder until you get it exactly where you want it.

the thing i have found is that usually a half grain of powder variation from high to low makes a very little difference in the cartridge performance. if you want to really swallow hard, you oughta start weighing your bullets. i once was loading Wichester 147 grain FMJ .308 bullets by the buckets. i got this idea to weigh some. in the same case lot of bullets i got some that weighed as much as 150 grains and some way down to 143 grains. that equates to a 5% variation. whereas a 0.5 grain variation in my charge of 45 grains would be only a 1% variation. for the type of shooting i was doing, which was military shoots and informal targets, it was okay.

of course, if you are trying to get a ten shot group in a dime size hole at 200 yards, none of my discussion is applicable. but if you are trying to get a ten shot group into a circle the size of the kill zone on a deer, you're doin way better than you need to.

Next to the Harrell's, those Dillon powder measures have been the most accurate for me of any I've ever used. I have three on turrets for various calibers for loading on my XL650. Don't recall the powders I use off hand but Unique is in the mix along with VihtaVouri 3N37. I KNOW I don't get the kind of variance you're getting, particularly in Unique. Mostly I'm within .1g plus or minus. Have you tried running about a dozen drops first before measuring and trying to set the scale? I don't know what the Dillon video suggests, but I run the press with the powder in the measure about a dozen drops to let the powder settle. Then I drop 10 charges and weigh them. I then adjust the measure up or down to get the load I want (times 10,) and keep repeating the drill until it's accurate.

On the Harrell's, or any other measure, it has a great deal to do with repeatability and consistency of the technique and there is a learning curve. I've never had even extruded powders on the Harrell's vary by more than .2g plus or minus. Most good benchrest shooters use the measures and can get within .1g repeatability, but that is the result of a lot of practice. Most of those guys don't rap the handle at either end of the swing and they maintain a steady speed in the movement. I can't quite do it that way as I prefer to rap twice at each end of the stroke which is perhaps the reason I don't quite attain the same accuracy. Hope this helps.

You are worring about nothing since most any accurcay load can vary by as much as a half grain or more and still produce very tight groups. Your scales are working just fine. Case preperation bullet weight to match bore twist rate and powder choice are far more important than your powder scales tenth grain weight changes. How well the rifle and scope your shooting was prepared is more than half the accuracy battle.
Trust your powder scale, concentrate on producing consistant loads with the proper bullet seating depth will cancel out any minor powder charge weight differences that small. Most all benchrest shooters drop their charges into their cases and don't weigh each charge seperatly. They randomly check by weight a charged case full of powder then seat the bullet and go to the line and shoot their group.
If you don't believe me try the ladder test method once and you will under stand why your worring about nothing when it comes to powder scale accuracy. You could buy every scale made and weigh out one powder charge. Place that charge on each scale and every single scale will not show the exact same weight. Move your powder scale one foot from where it now sets on your loading bench and rewiegh the same charge and see where the balance beam rests. Take a small piece of paper and weigh it, then write your name on that paper and weigh it to see if the beam moves.

I don't bother that much with the doser, I won't trust it.
So I set it about .3 grains below desired dose then trickle that last bit onto a digital scale.

EXPRESS hit the nail on the head with extruded powders, I don't think they will ever meter accurately. Ball powders meter very well, I use a Lyman 55 and it is accurate with my ball powders to .1 gr, but I weigh every extruded charge low and trickle up to level.
Yardbird

Since the benchrest crowd can shoot .2" groups at 200 yards, consistently, using their Harrels and n133 and H322, I think you need to find something else to blame........

If this is the particular accuracy Gremlin you'd like to chase some more, try Xterminator or Tac. They'll meter to within .1 gr, and still burn very clean. JMO, Dutch.

I've tested every powder measure I can lay hands on and none of them work well with stick powders. A key question here is how far are you shooting? Short range (say under 300 yds) can do fine with metered charges that vary. Long range (600 +) is another story and here you will see results from weighed charges. This is why benchresters get away with using a measure only, not because it works better than weighing. The 1000 yard benchrest and F-class guys almost always use the best scale they can get ahold of to weigh their charges. I have never seen any measure throw better than +/- .5 gr with a large stick powder over a real run when checked on a GOOD scale (another topic) that truly repeats. There was good advise on running a few strokes thru the Dillon before actually seating. I use a 1050 and the charges do vary quite a bit but then settle down to a normal variation after the first couple throws are discarded. For my precision rifle ammo I use the 550 with a prometheus scale mounted on it to weigh the charges, the best of all worlds.