I am looking for a replacement for my Lee "perfect" powder measure (that name is one great joke..), but I can�t seem to decide between the following:

Forster BR powder measure
Redding BR3
Harrel Custom 90 or Harrel Premium

What�s important to me in a measure is consistency of course, second comes the ability to dial back to a load using the micrometer settings and finally pure and simple joy of ownership = quality.

Does anyone have advice/opinions, preferably backed by experience?

Tron

For what kind of powder?

trb,

The Lee is pretty bad w/ cylindrical powder but, it is very accurate w/ small flake and ball powders. If you load alot of pistol rounds it is a very good piece of equipment.

There are several auto measurers out but, you are going to experience problems w/ cyl. powders in them also.

I have found that the best way to load rifle (and some pistol) rounds is to get a good "bar" scale and a powder trickler. The Lee bar scale is a very accurate scale and is pretty cheap too. The digital scales are nice but not as precise as bar scales.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Harrell's without a doubt!

What has been the problem with the Lee?

The harrels will be no more accurate than the Lee. Powder drops from a hopper to a chamber, the volume of the chamber does not change from each drop so you are out 150 bucks. Sure its nicer to look at and not made of plastic but I submit that a chamber made of plastic that cost 20 bucks and one made from aluminum that cost 200 bucks have the same consistency of volume. For pride of ownership, sure get the fancy one, for results on target, no difference. I throw my 600 and 1000 yard loads with RE15 from the Lee. That little elastomer wiper in the lee prevents cutting grains of extruded powder, I find it not the best measure for fine ball powders like H110 though.

I use a Lee for stick powder (4350,4064 etc) and an old RCBS for every thing else.
I just buy another Lee when mine fails about every 5 years. Both are very accurate at what they do.
However, if I had the money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd buy a Harrels Premium and never look back.
They aren't any more accurate, but are more easily repeatable, will last forever and you can't beat the cool factor.
good luck
Covey16

I used an RCBS with the Micrometer adjuster for years until I bought a Harrel. The Harrel is so much nicer to use I've not touched the rcbs since. The Harrels return to setting is sweet. The only time I don't use it is for black-powder which I have a special black-powder measure.......DJ

The Harrell's is a very fine measure. I have one. But for long extruded powders, it is no substitute for the Lee, which may be the best powder measure made for extruded powders. The Belding & Mull is also a very good measure for extruded powders. The Harrell's doesn't even come close, and the RCBS Uniflow is also fairly poor for that purpose.

For ball and flake, the Harrell's is great.

Meanwhile, I have found the Lee not so great for flake. And it is obviously a cheap piece of plastic s***. But if you want to throw repeatable charges of long sticks, the Lee is the best, with the B&M a close second BTW, the B&M needs to be mounted rather firmly, since it operates against considerable spring pressure.

Thanks for the replies.

The "problem" with the Lee is that it looks and feels like junk. It absolutely works, although I was hoping a more expensive measure would be more consistent with the slow burning "stick" powders.

I reload for rifles only and only powders like Reloader 15, 19, 22 and 25, Vihtavouri N150/N160 etc.

I reload with a Pact electronic scale and have no problems with dumping a sligthly light charge in the pan and trickling in the last two tenths, but if there are measures that are more consistent, then I am willing to spend the bucks.

I would like to know if anyone of you have actual experience based on comparing the performance of these measures or if you are operating on a "me thinks" "my brother in law�s cousin told me" basis?

If the lee measure is as good as they get when it comes to consistency, then I�ll save the bucks for something else, and it does work well enough with stuff like Reloader 15 and V-V N150.

Tron

i don't know about best, but my favorite is the lyman 55

jeffe

Plain old Lee Dipper works best for me.!!!

But them guys like me still prefer to weight it all on the old beam scales.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Harrel's. The "Culver Clicks" that is used has repeatability second to none. They will do just as good a job on stick powder as any. They all operate on the same principal; a pre-set volume of the drum is presented to the powder container, gravity fills the space, and it's rotated to empty. You will always cut sticks, flakes or whatever once in a while, it's just that sticks are bigger. The trick to throwing charges consistantly is the method used by the operator, and by keeping the powder in the container close to the same level.

A few years ago I tested all the powder measures that I could borrow.

Harrel's was not among them, but most of the other measures mentioned above were.

That damn cheap-looking Lee "Perfect Powder Measure" was not beaten by anything to my surprise (particularly for coarse stick powders).

There is a little plastic tab you can cut off the Lee which allow the filling tube to completely empty/fill to the last grain and I had done this modification before my tests.

However, the Lee can sometimes leak ball powders a little, but it never seemed worse than the Lyman or RCBS in this respect.

I will look and see if I can find my test results...

Finally, I'd have to admit that the Lee measure sure doesn't forster much pride of ownership! However if you are more impressed by performance than fine polished brass or cast iron, you will be impressed by the Lee!

jpb

Wayne Shaw nailed it. What you define as "best" has many factors to be weighed into it, repeatability is one and maybe a very important one to some, like me. You can go right back to the Harrell's if you've written your data down, and throw EXACTLY the same charge many years later. While it does occasionally cut the larger stick powders, I've thrown many charges with stuff like IMR4831 and the old Hodgdon before the SC. In 50 dumps you might cut one or two grains. You can feel it and you know that charge is going to be off. Put it back and dump again. You can't get the precision with a Lee, or the repeatability that you can with most others that have micrometer adjustments. I'll sell a Lee I have for $5, you pay shipping, if you think they're so good!

Hi Bob338

I agree with you on the ease of setting up a measure in different reloading sessions. Counting clicks is indeed faster and easier than reading the Vernier scale on the Lee.

I should have been more specific. My comments were regarding the uniformity of loads tossed by the measure within a loading session -- not how easy it was to set up the measure for a given load at the start of another session.

Cheers,

jpb

Look at Midway where they have their Frankford Arsenal Competition powder measure on sale for about $75. I have an RCBS and an old Hornaday, and this measure delivers with micro-adjustable tubes for pistol and rifle. It works well comes with its own stand and bracket and has a fancy powder measure drop tube kit too. For the money, you won't find a better rig. Ku-dude

The "figure of merit" for a powder measure is its repeatability. That is expressed as the standard deviation of the charges it meters.



Varget is a stick powder, that meters fairly well, but not as well as the ball powders.



In my Lee Perfect Powder Measure, the standard deviation of Varget charges is .11 grain. 95% of charges will then be within .22 grains, and 99.7% within .33 grains.



The 223 is a small case, fairly sensitive to powder variation. My 223 handloads generally have a muzzle velocity standard deviation of about 25 fps.



One grain of powder is about 100 fps, so a standard deviation of the powder variation, expressed as muzzle velocity is 11 fps.



Standard deviations add by the square root of the sum of the squares. So, by not individually hand weighing my powder charges, but rather measuring them with the Lee, my MV SD will "jump" from 25 fps to (25^2 + 11^2)^.5, or 27.3 fps.



Bottom line: The Lee Perfect throws charges that are consistent enough that, in rifle charges, using short stick powder, you will not notice the difference between individually had weighed and measured charges. You will not find a measure that will be enough more accurate to make any detectable difference.



Now if you just want something that looks and feels better, that is ample reason to get another measure. Just don't expect better loads.

i have used the forster measure about 10 years, but have only used ball powders with it; no problems noted except mounting it. it clamps to the shelf and tends to pivot around the clamp, i screwed to "L" shape brackets to the shelf on both sides of the base and enlarged the screw hole in the back of the base and screwed in a larger screw, it don't move now. found an old ohaus du-o-measure on e-bay, it is an excellent measure, do not use the forster much any more. the ohaus has 2 chambers, small and large with micrometer adjustments.

The Best powder "Measurer" for stick powders is the new Lyman Digital powder dispenser. It will throw any powder to an accuracy of 1/10 grain in a reasonable amount of time. You type in the weight, hit enter and wait a few seconds. I think that it's faster for ball powders to use My Harrels but on anything stick shaped the new lyman is really cool. I don't think its the very fastest way to weigh everything but you can be doing something else in the 10-20 seconds it takes to dispense the load. My friend loaned me his and isn't getting it back.......DJ

I'll second the Lyman DPS for the long stick powders. I hate shearing those long kernels with any measure. I have both the Lyman 55, and the Redding 3-BR. The micrometer adjuster is easier to set than the sliding drum of the Lyman, but no more accurate once set. I've gotten away from stick powders and switched to Military surplus ball powders. They are cheaper, more accurate, and far easier to meter thru a measure. You can really speed up the Lyman DPS by dipping a charge about 6 to 8 grains less than what you want with a set of Lee Powder Dippers, then let the machine finish it off. It's almost as fast as a measure that way. Bill T.

I have the RCBS Uniflow that came in the Rockchucker kit 5 years ago. I got used to it's problems:
1) Needs to be at least 2/3 full to be repeatable. Some make a baffle, but I just keep topping it off like a girl's drink.
2) The green plastic see through hopper is not so see through any more after Power Pistol etched it.
3) IMR4895 would get a stick stuck every couple throws and require some real force to crunch it. After a few years, that stopped.
4) Dialing in a powder charge is like playing 20 questions; I must iterate.

I have a Lyman #55 that is a good powder measure, but I am used to the RCBS.

There is a comparison between the Uniflow and the Harrell at realguns, but Joe is a very RCBS guy:
http://www.realguns.com/Commentary/comar63.htm

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

First of all, this matter is not entirely resolvable by rational thought processes. However, if anyone came close, Denton did. Three cheers!

I have owned RCBS and worked with Belding & Mull. I currently own three Harrells, two regular Lymans, a black powder Lyman, a Redding, and the already discussed Lee.

The RCBS Uniflow was O.K., but barely. It worked better if you used it with the approach-to-weight system.

The Harrells are magnificent, especially the two with roller bearings. The roller bearing work smoother than my wife's vaseline. They are great until you start measuring medium and large stick powder. Then they have no more precision (statistically speaking) than some others.

The Lymans, as far as I can see, work fine. I couldn't help getting the second one as it was on sale. They work as well as any and no worse than others when measuring medium to large stick powders.

The Redding is the best compromise of money-for-quality and use, I think. It is great, with interchangeable chambers, for just about anything. You can get bottle adaptors, baffles, etc. Buy the best grade of it that you can afford and it will last a lifetime. Don't leave double-based powders in it for extended periods, they will eat at the plastic hopper--looks bad, works fine. The approach-to-weight system works best with big stick powders.

What I really wish was that Lee would make a decent quality version of theirs. This one is really of marginal quality, by comparison to the rest. Trouble is, that it is some better with big stick powders. It is a nuisance with little ball powder--don't even think about it--it leaks stuff.

Thanks for all the replies, and the experience-based information, just what I was looking for.

Seems most of you agree that the Lee measure (that I allready have) cannot be bettered for consistency with stick powders.

On the other hand it seems I might keep the consistency of the Lee measure and add repeatability/build quality by going to a Harrell measure.

Anyway, getting a new measure just moved sligthly down my list of priorities...

Tks
Tron

I do not have experience with the first two you mention, but I do have the harrel and it is first rate. I think you would be very happy with it.

My Redding works pretty well.

I don't know if it's the "best", but I'm partial to the Culver benchrest measure (my dad knew H.L. Culver for years and in the early 90s helped machine a few hundred of the inserts). For repeatability, they're excellent.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com