Thanks.

Also note that however much/long you apply JB, your patches will never come out clean like a solvent soaked patch eventually does when the bore is finally clean. JB (and IOSSO) patches always come out black/dark gray, even from a perfectly clean bore.

Martindog

Check with the barrel makers, some of them say it's fine, some of them don't say, and some of them say don't do it. Like with everything else in this hobby, opinions are like ........

Besides, in a factory barrel, you couldn't ruin it with J.B.'s if you tried. JMO, Dutch.

I start with a couple of one-way wet patches, (Butch�s, Shooter�s Choice, whatever) on a slot tip to catch the loose and big stuff. Follow with a couple of tight dry patches on a good jag.

JB paste is applied with cotton mops, bore specific, which allows a nice slow polish stroke. I simply smear a bit of the paste along the mop with a finger. Ten strokes of each direction to start. Check for copper with wet patches followed by the dry jag patch. If copper is still present, I repeat the JB application. And so on�.

I prefer mops, as they are easier to reverse in the bore and give a nice �feel.� Remember, we are polishing-not scrubbing.

Mops can be ordered in bulk from Brownell�s and are easily cleaned and dried for additional use. I simply place several soiled mops in an old synthetic kitchenware container filled with hot soapy water. Liquid dishwasher soap does the trick. Let them soak for half an hour then shake or agitate periodically during the next half hour or so. Finally, rinse well with hot water, shake out the excess water, and stand them upright to dry overnight.

I believe JB bore paste to be safe in ANY firearm if used as intended. A bore guide is a must with any polishing compound. In addition, clean the bore guide thoroughly before you put it away.

~Holmes

They tell you to lube the barrel before running a patch wrapped around an old bore brush. About 10 trips back and forth normally removes most copper. If not, another snug patch and another 10 trips pretty well guarantees a clean bore.

I first run two patches on a jag with a good powder solvent to get the burned carbon out of there. Then run a patch with I lube, I use Kroil. THEN run your JB through there. After the copper is removed, another tight patch saturated in Kroil removes the balance of the JB. Another clean patch with a couple of drops of Kroil to remove all traces, and you're done.

JB is a mixture of diatamaceous earth and grease. How anyone can expect to damage hard steel with decomposed fish bones is beyond me.

I

quote:

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Originally posted by eldeguello:
I have it on the authority of J. Belk, a well-known and reputable riflesmith and barrel man, that one should not use JB Compound. He suggests the Outers electrolysis copper remove instead, due to JB Compound abrasive's tendency to ruin gilt-edge barrels. I used to use the stuff, and probably have ruined a couple of my better barrels.

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Someone is always looking for a reason to blame something on a gun NOT shooting. IF you could actually ruin a barrel with JB cleaning paste, you'd have in the end a arm that'd take Hercules in a arm rastling match- built up by bore cleaning.

Ain't no way..

quote:

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Originally posted by eldeguello:
...the authority of J. Belk, a well-known and reputable riflesmith and barrel man...

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

Sorry Jack!

quote:

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Originally posted by eldeguello:
I have it on the authority of J. Belk, a well-known and reputable riflesmith and barrel man, that one should not use JB Compound. He suggests the Outers electrolysis copper remove instead, due to JB Compound abrasive's tendency to ruin gilt-edge barrels. I used to use the stuff, and probably have ruined a couple of my better barrels.

---

When I bought my new rifle with factory barrel I was told by Greg Tanner (he builds custom long range competition rifles) to use JB bore paste or Remington's version. He said that I'd never damage a factory barrel and, in fact, could make it smoother with repeated use. He did not, however, advocate using it on a custom barrel. He did not say don't use it, he just didn't say.

The dangers associated with JB is just another urban myth. Don�t know who was responsible for it, but they are quite wrong.

I would never argue with Gale McMillian, however, consider the facts - Polishing compounds which are utilized with lead lapping in custom barrels are many times MORE abrasive than JB. JB is non-embedding, diatomaceous earth, specifically formulated to be many times softer than gun steel. HOWEVER, JB is classified as an abrasive. Abrasive ANYTHING must be used with care and applied properly when it comes to cleaning guns.

Chemical cleaning is the safest way to clean your bore as long as you follow directions. Most of my guns do not require any brushing and I only use JB every 10 or so cleaning to ensure that I am addressing stubborn powder fouling. Used properly, it extends the life of my barrels by eliminating trapped fouling and its potential for pitting. I have several varmint/target guns which are still sub-sub-MOA after 2,000 to 3,000 rounds and I use JB in all of them.

IF JB is wearing out barrels, I can attest that it makes absolutely no difference in any of my guns and I have yet to discover abnormal wear via continual bore scope inspection. I have the same 2oz container that I purchased 8+ years ago, and I still have plenty left - a little goes a very long way. Furthermore, most bench and competition target shooters use the stuff by the bucket full. IF there were any question regarding its use, these guys would run in the other direction.

One other point which I have considerable trouble with from Gale�s cleaning suggestions is the use of the Foul Out system. This system has destroyed more barrels in a shorter amount of time than any other cleaning system on the market - period. If you want to pit a barrel in record time, simply use the unit with weak chemicals. Within a few hours you can trash a new barrel. Furthermore, the system is totally ineffective on powder fouling which requires manual scrubbing before more electrolysis treatments - and that is not an urban myth!

A lot of learned folks are guilty of repeating popular gossip without all the facts OR personal experience. A gunsmith sees a gun with damaged rifling and the customer tell the smith he uses JB. The gunsmith then incorrectly assumes that JB damaged the bore when in fact it was the two piece steel cleaning rod, chucked into an electric drill, spinning at 500 RPM that did the damage!

Personally, I find the JB's a little weak, and I have switched to Flitz. But, there's that farm-boy approach again...... Dutch.

A couple of months ago I did a bit of research into this entire Bore Lapping and Bore Cleaning with abrasives issue. Here are a few sites I checked out:

Talked to Randy at Blue Coral (800) 416-1600

www.gemworld.com
www.abrasivetools.com
www.barton.com (800) 792-5462
www.kcabrasive.com
www.kingsleynorth.com (800) 338-9280
www.reade.com
www.elkcodiamond.com (800) 500-6440
www.geocities.com

and www.polysort.com (800) 832-4527 which gave me Lake Wylie (803) 619-6600.

Well, as luck would have it, the closest place to me(polysort) had the only guy that knew the difference between "Embedding vs. Non-Embedding" abrasive compounds. I spoke with Mr. Dick Pastor(30+ years abrasive experience) and he understood exactly what I was getting at.

He related that the best commercial "non-embedding abrasive" is made from Garnet. It fractures into smaller particles as it is used. Mr. Pastor was even kind enough to provide some phone numbers for Garnet Abrasives (414) 621-0682 and US Products Co. (412) 621-2130.

Samples are on the way.

By the way, Garnet is the material Brownell's sells as a "Lapping Abrasive".

I see where Bob338 and ZD mentioned JB Compound is made from "diatamaceous earth". I've looked all over two jars of it and don't see any reference to what it is made of, BUT, I'LL TAKE THEIR WORD for it.

As a side note, I was in Lowe's hardware checking out the various Ant Poisons this week and noticed one of them is a 4# sack containing 77% "diatamaceous earth" and 23% inert chemicals(Ant killer). It was less than $8.00 for the sack.

So, if you have Ants crawling in your barrels, you might be able to use this stuff, kill the Ants and clean your Bore all at the same time!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Not sure how many decades I've used JB Compound in "my" rifles. They seem to like it right well and I've never noticed any accuracy degredation that I can attribute to good old JB Compound.

So, I'll continue to use it on "my" firearms until something better comes along...

OR,

until I can get a rip roaring scrubber made with the Garnet.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

I agree with all of you! Great posts on clearing up this most erroneous myth! sure-shot

Jerry~
I take any new "custom" barrel and do exactly what you do before firing the first shot through it. Only difference is I run patches with JB through about 200 trips, or more if I have the time, or my arm doesn't wear out. In Precision Shooting several years ago they told the story of a benchrester who religiously did this, but for 1000 (!!!) trips. He had some of the best barrels, and shot in the upper echlons. He was somewhat eccentric but believed in the method. I don't have the patience, but after doing it on several guns and borescoping during the "break-in" process, I concluded it made a difference. A couple of years back I had need for about 5 custom Pac-Nor barrels. I treated each one in this manner. A couple of them NEVER had any copper fouling in the first shots. My best recollection now is that only one required as many as three shots, cleaning between each shot, before there was no sign of copper fouling when scoping the bore. I'm uncertain what effect, if any, it has on the much rougher factory tubes, but if I had one, I'd sure do the same thing. Those barrels on which I did that are the easiest cleaning barrels I've ever owned. You'd have a hard time convincing me you are wrong, except I'd make a few more trips than the 25 you do.

quote:

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Originally posted by sure-shot:
Zerodrift, Hot Core and Dutch,

I agree with all of you! Great posts on clearing up this most erroneous myth! sure-shot

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Oops, Bob338 included! sure-shot

As many others have, I have been using Flitz or JB's to polish the bore in lieu of breaking in the barrel. According to some, this then must ruin the bore. But, since they are my barrels, I do what I want.

John Rigby and Co (you know, the guys that make the $35,000 double rifles) buy their barrels from Pac-nor. Then, the California Heathens that they are, they take Chris' barrels, and FIRELAP them. Now, if JB's is going to ruin a barrel, what is firelapping a hand lapped "Super Match" barrel going to do?

All that is a long way of saying that it's important to realize that a distinguished person's opinion is not necessarily makes it a distinguished opinion.

In this hobby, there is rarely ever a single "right way". JMO, Dutch.

HotCore,
I nearly pissed myself from your first reply.

Daryl

P.S. yes, I know he's twice my age. Physically.

I spun a piece of round steel [9" of 22 barrel liner] at high r.p.m.s and pollished it with finer and finer wet and dry paper until I stared pollishing with finer and finer Scotch Gurard abrasive scrub pads [they are collor coded and white is the finest]

So I have this steel that is so shiny I can see myself in it and I am looking though the microscope at the steel after each stage. Then I pollish with JB bore paste on a rag, real hard for a long time. I look in the microscope, and there is no change. I am not convinced that JB IS abrasive. Maybe my jar was special, I don't know.

If I look in the end of an Addams and Bennet barrel and see a surface that looks like an inside out rat tailed file, I have a hard time imagining the JB BOre paste making any change.

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited 04-13-2002).]

Last fall I broke in a new Pac-Nor barrel by cleaning the barrel with JB paste and Sweets after each round of the first 10 shots fired. It was the fastest method I ever used to break-in a barrel. Needless to say that barrel does not foul very easy and is slick as snot today. I love JB paste! sure-shot

What technique do you use for cleaning your rifles?

Do you lubricate the barrel before using the JB's?

How could I still have copper in the lands with the Sweets no longer turning color?

Even using the JB's, I can still see small amounts of copper bedded in the lands. Any thoughts about how I could get it out?

Thanks for all the advice.

Go "relieve" yourselves prior to reading ANY posts. To continue reading without doing so, is to do so at YOUR OWN RISK!

Hot Core, nor the fine folks at this site(Saeed) can not be held responsible for you young'uns wetting your britches! HAHAHA

I guess I am getting old! I thought eldeguello had the "funniest" post when he strung together:

...the authority...J. Belk, ...reputable riflesmith and barrel man...[/QUOTE]

And for those of you who know I don't think well of Leftist-Liberals who "Testify AGAINST" the firearms industry in court, that is being REAL NICE!

Hey George, Thanks for the added info on Ant Killing. Down here the Ants do get a bit irritating and we go after them with a vengeance.

Hey Ron L, It sounds like to me that your barrel might be a bit rough. The post Bob338 made about using JB Compound to smooth the barrel should help you out.

Here is what I'd do:

1. Get 6 new brass brushes for your 375.
2. Measure the Outside Diameter of the Bore Brush with a 0.001" Caliper and record the size on a sheet of paper.
3. Wrap each brush with one cloth patch.
4. Apply JB Compound to the patched-brush and give the barrel 10 strokes, 1-in and 1-out is one complete stroke.
5. Re-apply JB Compound to the patched-brush and continue for 10 more strokes.
6. Do this for 50-100 strokes and you should notice the "bristles" on the brush are "wearing down" if you will remeasure the OD.
7. When the patched-brush gets too loose (50-100 strokes), put a new patched-brush into service. If you get to 100 strokes and can not measure a change in the brush OD, then the barrel is smooth and no amount of continued stroking will make it smoother using this method.
8. The amount of brush wear will decrease as you continue to use new brushes. This is because you are removing the "roughness" of the bore(Lapping) and therefore it has less "effect" on the bristles.
9. By the time you get to the 6th patched-brush, the barrel should be quite a bit smoother. And the last patched-brush will not wear down much at all. You might not even get to the 6th brush.

You can accelerate this process by buying the "Lapping Compound"(Garnet) from Brownell's. I think they sell 600 grit and 800 grit Garnet which is more considerably more aggressive than the JB Compound, but it won't hurt your bore either.

After you get the bore smooth, it will be much easier to clean with any product you choose to use.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core