I have a M77 tang safety Ruger 3006 with a VarXIII 2.5-8 scope. I have owned this gun for 23 years and have not had a problem with grouping bullets until this last weekend. Shooting my reloads (58grns of H414 with a 165 hornady boat tail) off a bench at 100yrds I was all over the place from 7 inches high to right on. Windage was just as bad 6 inches to the righ and then 5 inches to the left. No pattern was detected like alternating from left to right or walking higher as the barrel heated. I shot 23 rounds, 5 rounds into it I was checking screws on the scope mounts, and checked the three screws holding the stock to the action/barrel. Nothing seemed to have helped. I have been shooting these reloads for the last 11 years out of this gun and they always have grouped no more than an 1"1/4 and I have never had to touch the scope since I first sighted it in with this recipe. Could the scope be bad? Any suggestions?
Sounds like the scope for sure. I have an MK 77 mark 2 SS that I can't get a group on no matter what I shoot. Have a new Simmons 6.5 x 20 on it and think I will go back to my proven Leupold 3 x 9 and try that. I know it is good!
Posts: 671 | Location: none | Registered: 14 February 2005
even a poorly bedded rifle should shoot better than that.
I "third the nomination"...check the scope mounts etc and if fine change the scope.
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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003
If not the scope, and after 23 years, this isn't one of those rifles that don't get cleaned properly is it. If it's full of carbon and copper it might be acting up. JL.
Posts: 2355 | Location: Australia | Registered: 14 November 2004
I bet the scope went on vacation ! I have experienced the same problem with the identical scope mounted on a Sako 375 H&H. sent the scope back twice for repairs. Bottom line scope could not hold up to the recoil. Sent the scope back the third time and sold it when I got it back. I remember shooting it and getting buckshot like patterns, never knowing which side of the target will get punched next.
Fortunately, Leupold will repair it for free and you will be back in business!
Focus on the leading edge!
Posts: 453 | Location: Louisiana by way of Alaska | Registered: 02 November 2004
Originally posted by BlueFlame: I have a M77 tang safety Ruger 3006 with a VarXIII 2.5-8 scope. I have owned this gun for 23 years and have not had a problem with grouping bullets until this last weekend. Shooting my reloads (58grns of H414 with a 165 hornady boat tail) off a bench at 100yrds I was all over the place from 7 inches high to right on. Windage was just as bad 6 inches to the righ and then 5 inches to the left. No pattern was detected like alternating from left to right or walking higher as the barrel heated. I shot 23 rounds, 5 rounds into it I was checking screws on the scope mounts, and checked the three screws holding the stock to the action/barrel. Nothing seemed to have helped. I have been shooting these reloads for the last 11 years out of this gun and they always have grouped no more than an 1"1/4 and I have never had to touch the scope since I first sighted it in with this recipe. Could the scope be bad? Any suggestions?
I could shoot a slingshot more accurate than that at 100yds., it could be 3 things, scope, scope, scope. Jay
Posts: 1745 | Location: WI. | Registered: 19 May 2003
Thanks for the information. This week I am going to swap the scope out with an old Tasco and shoot this weekend. I will let you guys know what I find out on Sat
JAL, I probably don't clean it as well as I should. Usually just run a couple of solvent patches until they come out clean, a dry patch and an oil patch.
Murftj, I only use this gun for hunting, what is the expected barrel life? I have shot it every year, but some years it has only been 3 shots at the range, in other years I have run 30 - 40 rounds through it. But even then I would expect that I have no more than 500 - 600 rounds through this rifle.
It is likely the scope then. 600 rounds is nothing. A dirty barrel won't cause that kind of shot dispersion.
You should brush the bore once in a while to control the carbon. A ring sometimes builds-up near the throat and causes increased pressures and poor accuracy. A bronze brush will keep it under control.
When you swap scopes, brush the barrel too. Eliminate both variables.
One easy check before the scope change. Take one of your bullets and see if it drops into one of your fired cases. You could see results like you describe if you have now paid attention to your case neck thickness over several reloading periods.
Posts: 251 | Location: TX | Registered: 28 January 2005
What can I expect if I try to drop a bullet into a fired shell case? Should it drop right through? Should it get hung up? Now that you bring this up, I am using old cases that my father-in-law gave me a few years back. I full length resized and trimed them before I reloaded.
Yes they should drop freely down into your case. Here is an easy way to check. You need three simple measurements. Take your calipers and measure the O.D. outside diameter of your fired case neck. Then you need to measure the neck thickness in several places and take the average. Yes guys I know you really should use a ball micrometer for this part. For instance .013 thousandths neck thickness. Now you will need to add this number twice and you get .026 thousandths for example. Almost done--Take the diameter of your bullet 30/06 which should be .308 diameter. In this example I add .308 plus the .026 thousandths for the neck thickness and come up with .334 Now look at that first O.D. number and if it is smaller than .334 then you have a problem. These loads could be hard to chamber and for sure will build higher pressures or erratic pressures causing flyers. A very simple often overlooked tidbit.
Posts: 251 | Location: TX | Registered: 28 January 2005
As said above check the scope first, also check any loose screws on mounts or rings.
If that doesn't pan out, are you trimming your brass? Long cases, that have not been trimmed, in several firings will trash your accuracy also. Have you tried a box of factory ammo?
I have worked with rifles of friends that they were swearing needed a new barrel, and keeping a group on a 4'x4' sheet was difficult, miraculously after case trimming they were back shooting like they were before. Needless this has a profound impact on accuracy, and if your going to error a little short is much prefered to a little long.
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004
If you have only about 600 rounds through it, then I would say your barrel itself is fine. I was basing that assumption on that you have had it for 23 years, and perhaps had shot it more than you actually have. I would clean it good, and put a different scope on, and go from there.
Posts: 217 | Location: South Dakota | Registered: 29 October 2002
Check the crown for a ding. These other suggestions are good. I don't pay a lot of attention to neck thickness, I really should, but admit I don't.
I have a problem child in my safe right now too. I was impressed with it until the scope failed. Then I learned how it had been mounted. Since getting the scope back I have had the gun shop smith check the rings an bases. The front and rear rings had been mixed up. Shim under the front was left off. Boresighting was not fruitful, after much adjustment it's close. But again seems like it's inconsistant and vertically near the edge of travel. I'm scratching my melon! At least I had the forethought to purchase several rifles to avoid being stuck without at least one good one! Nate
Sighting in problems update. I couldn't wait until the weekend to see what was going on. I took the barrel and action entirely off of the stock, looked it over and remounted it without noticing anything unusual I then gave it a good cleaning with a wire brush and solvent. The Leupold came off and on went an old Tasco 3-9. I grabbed a box of factory Winchester loads and off to the country I went.
Good news and bad news. Good news is that at 100 yrds I was able to get a 7 shot group into just over 2" (not bad considering I was using a bipod and the hood of my car for a rest). Bad news is the group was 6 inches to the left and I was not able to adjust the scope. It appears that I was either out of adjustment or something was stuck. It might be why that scope was sitting on my shelf in the first place.
Sounds like the scope for sure. I have an MK 77 mark 2 SS that I can't get a group on no matter what I shoot. Have a new Simmons 6.5 x 20 on it and think I will go back to my proven Leupold 3 x 9 and try that. I know it is good!
Jay
Nate
