Starting to use trail boss. have got a safe load for the Veterlli but nothing else. Need enough info to start using it reduced loads and fire forming if possible. It would be nice to be able to corelate it to 4759 or even 5744. Can anybody help from your experience. I,ve been to the IMR web site. Thanks guys. roger

I like it for my subsonic .308 (suppressed loads)


A smattering--



One of my favorite 0 to 100 yard loads is: (Targets up to 150lbs.)
Lapua case
170 Sierra (30-30) bullet, (home-molyed)
Fed 210GM primer
10.2 gr. Trail Boss
(10.5gr no-Moly)
(your gun may take more or less)
NO crimp
OAL 2.735”

For longer distances, 100 to 200yds:
(These also work below 100yds)
(some guns are “more Picky”)

155gr Hornady AMAX (factory MOLY )
(about 3" low)
(@100yd compared to std, match)
8.5 gr Trail Boss
Fed 210GM
OAL 2.771”

168 Sierra Match King (no Moly) (about 3” low )
9.8 gr Trail Boss (9/64)
CCI BR2
OAL: 2,75

175 Sierra Match King (no Moly)
(about 5 to 6 “ low)
10.8 gr Trail boss
Fed210GM
OAL: 2.800

180 Hornady round nose (no Moly)
(about 8” low)
Win. Brass
10.5 gr Trail Boss
CCI BR2
OAL 2.643

180 gr Speer RN (no-noly)
(About 9” low)
10.8 Trail Boss (edit-Typo)
CCI BR2 (9/64)
OAL 2.650”

200gr Lapua SubSonic (hard to get)
(no Moly)
(about 12" low)
Fed210GM (9/64)
10.0 gr Trail Boss

(OR 8.2 gr RED DOT--my pre-Trail Boss favorite)

Hope this helps.

Thanks Duggaboy, This will give me something to work with. Do you have any velocity info? roger

Around 930 to 1010 , depending on the barrel length weapon and load

(and conditions, temp, altitude , etc)

(Edited 180 gr Speer load)

The weapon I'm using currently is taking more powder than my last one--by about .6 gr of TB.


USE chrono to develop in your weapon.

_____________________________________________

Ed Harris' -RULES (for Subsonic loads)

(written before the release of Trail Boss)

1. Drill Flashole to (9/64") to allow all the primer flash to enter the case and ignite the powder completely.

2. Use Magnum Primers for maximum primer flash and better powder ignition.

3. Lube all bullets. Moly is good, animal fat is better.

4. Lubricate the bore regularly while shooting.

5. Never crimp bullets into cases. Never seat bullets "into the lands."

6. Try not to use powder charges of less than 40% load density.

7. If load density is less than 40%, use tamping or fillers to keep the powder at the bottom of the case.

8. Make sure the bullet exits the bore after each shot.

9. Use only the fastest burning pistol powders - N310, N312, Bullseye, Clays, Titewad, HP38, Red Dot.

10. Any sort of slow ignition or hangfire is a warning of imminent Secondary Explosive Effect

Trail Boss and a 30/30 with cast bullets is really a blast to get out and shoot... like shooting the world's biggest cap gun...

it duplicates the old west blackpowder loads in a 30/30..

recoil has to be about 1/4 lb...

brass life and barrel life have to be bordering on about forever...

I've been using it as well, other than the stink I don't mind it and its rapidly becoming my favorite for fire-forming brass.

quote:

Originally posted by eurocentric:
I've been using it as well, other than the stink I don't mind it and its rapidly becoming my favorite for fire-forming brass.

Funny, I've never noticed the smell.

I am surprised that you can use trailboss for fire-forming. I use 15gr in my 30-06(220gr) subsonic load and leaves the primer protruding from the case-head. I assume it does not develop enough pressure to force the case back against the bolt face and re-seat the primer.

I've played with it a bit in 308, 300 win and 300 wby. I had trouble finding accuracy but have read that with longer jacketed bullets it gets more finicky. I just tried some loads in my 308 with the little 110 v max and shazam...under 1" at 100 yds.
I have quick load and a little crossreferencing finds this for me. If I take AA#7 pistol powder and use it as the "forecast" powder and deduct 3% from the velocity I'm right on the nuts. I know you're not supposed to compress this stuff but I do fill it absolutely to the bottom of where the bullet sits. I'm also going to try crimping a bit more.
In my 308 15.3 tb under the 110 v max did a consistant 1800 out of a 20" barrel and had no felt recoil at all....can't imagine a better training load for a youngster. It also can make a great load to test bullet expansion performance at the bottom of it's velocity window

BTTT, Sure could use more info! Cast bullet loads are part of the need. roger

I'm really likin' it for handgun loads. 2.3gr and 158 cast for 38 Spl, 6.5gr and 200 cast for 45 Colt. Very pleasant to shoot.

I was trying some Trail Boss this weekend for subsonic 223 loads using 55 grain Hornady SPSX in a 16" bbl AR-15 Had been out a couple weeks earlier with some loads and they were supersonic, even the 4.0 grain load showing on the IMR web page was too fast. Not sure the velocity because the battery for my chronograph died but with a suppressor on, there was a supersonic crack. Guessing right about 1200 fps. So this time I tried 3.5 grains and 3.8 grains, with both wolf 223 primers and CCI 450 primers.

First shot was with the suppressor off (to make sure the bullet was stable) and nothing happened. Primer fired and the powder burned but it stuck the bullet in the throat of the barrel. This was even after tipping the barrel up to make sure the powder was at the back of the case. Figuring it was a fluke, I tried another one. Even with ear muffs on I could hear the firing pin hit and then the chronograph beeped to say it had recorded the shot which surpriesd me because I didn't hear the gun fire. Sure enough there was a bullet hole on the target at 25 yards.

Found that magnum rifle primers gave better accuracy and more consistent velocities than standard primers. The 3.8 grain loads were just under 1000 fps so will try the 4.0 grain load again with magnum primers next time.

The 3.5 grain loads are interesting. After the first non working shot,the next four worked just fine. Put the suppressor on and when I tried some more 3.5 grain loads the first one fired fine but the next two stuck the bullets in the barrel throat. What was really interesting is the sound when the gun "fired". Not wearing ear muffs I could hear the firing pin hit the primer, barely hear a pop from the primer and then I could hear a hissing noise for about a second. Kind of sounded like the very end of a spray can when you run out of pressure to spray out paint or WD-40. It was the powder burning because when I would eject the case, there was no powder left. Stuck bullets are a pain to get out.

Curious it anyone has used SR 4759 for subsonic 223 loads. I have some of this powder too and may give it a try to see how it works. I have used it for reduced loads in a 270, 30-06 and 35 Whelen.

And if I had not forgotten my ammo, I would have tried some Trail Boss loads in my 45 ACP. Oh well, an excuse for a return trip to the range this weekend.

This is great info ACP.Makes you want to do a little thinking.There may be a case volume powder mass ratio problem and or a powder position affect. Thanks roger

I can tell you one cartridge NOT to use trailboss in: M1 carbine. At least not with the recommended starting load. You'll be getting the bullet that's lodged in the barrel out from under the front sight.

Funny thing is, it DID eject the case. My guess is once it got to the gas port, the extra volume caused by the gas piston moving back was enough to slow down the bullet so it didn't make it out the tube before the pressure dropped to zero when the case was extracted.

LOL! Hope it didnt take much to punch it out. I didnt think it would be enough to use in the M1 carbine. Hum....I wonder if I could use IMR3031?

After loading round, I would tip the barrel straight up then bring the gun down to the rest. Wonder if moving the gun some to get the cross hairs aligned was enough to move the powder.

Hope to get out this weekend and try again. Any excuse to be at the range and not doing chores around the house works for me.

I had problems with light bullets sticking in barrel while try to get down to sub-sonic. 60gr in .25-06 would not work SS...1500 to 1800 fps was fine though.