The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading flattened primers on starting loads.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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hi, was loading for an rem. model 7 in 7mm-08 that i bought last fall that i just got around to and i'm having a problem with the primers flattening even on starting loads. using new ww brass, ww wlr primers, 140gr. barns "x" over first varget and then rl15. using hornady manual (don't know edition but only had it a couple of years) listing for 139gr. sst. no other signs of pressure and slower vel. then listed for starting loads in either powder. oh ya, 120gr. rem. factory loads have normal looking primers after firing. any ideas? (primers are new) thanks, dave. | ||
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You need to stop .! And go back over every thing If your flatting the primer your WAY OVER THE TOP Check the powder make sure it's the right powder even if this sounds stupped recheck the powder make sure it's the right pwder make sure its the right primer check and recheck Some time back i screwed up myself i used the wrong powder both can's had a 7 on them but one was accurte 7 and one was reloader 7 long story short i only found out after two Mod / Marlin GS's locked up after firing the cases had to be beaten out with steel rod's ========= Check recheck and then go back and start all over and check again somthing's not right if your flatting the primer's | |||
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no mistakes, i checked, i checked all afternoon. my lyman manual shows a load using imr-3031 that i might try and see if i still get flattened primers. this isn't the first time i've reloaded, been loading many calibers both rifle and handgun for years and only once had a problem with flattened primers and that was for a ruger super redhawk in .44 mag. and factory ammo did the same thing so i didn't worry about it, just stopped a litte short of max. dave. | |||
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Useful loading ranges: Varget From 33.1 grains to 44.6 grains Remington 9-1/2 Primer RL-15 From 34.8 grains to 43.0 grains Remington 9-1/2 Primer (Have you checked your scale for accuracy lately?) | |||
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I wonder whether you might have an excessive headspace situation. This assumes that you're using new brass, or brass fired in another rifle. It also assumes that there were no other pressure signs like difficult extraction etc. What would happen is that the firing pin hits the primer but, due to the excessive headspace, the cartridge moves forward slightly (up against the chamber's shoulder) before the primer is ignited. Because there is now a small gap between the case head and the breech (bolt face), the primer is pushed out to fill this gap. Now the case fireforms to the chamber, flattening the slightly protruding primer against the bolt face. You can test for this situation by reloading and firing one of those cases with the flattened primers, using the same starting load. If the fired primer comes out rounded, you can be pretty sure that this was the problem. The solution is simply to fireform all your cases to your chamber. | |||
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I was just reloading some .308s with Barnes Triple-Shocks, and Barnes had placed a notice in the bullet box that they had improved the bullets but had changed the ogive. Is it possible your bullet is into the lands? A factory load could have the same OAL but be well off the lands because of a flatter ogive. kk | |||
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if i was guessing..............considering, you've rechecked everything.........are under published maximum........are under listed velocity, etc, etc, etc. ADJUST HEADSPACE!........you may be bumping the shoulder back too far with the size die. i'd say more people get flat primers from incorrect headpace, than from maximum loads. | |||
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How much varget are you using?? I'm shooting 44 grains with the 139 grain SST and am getting the same pressure signs as with 40 grains, none. in a Rem 700 mnt rifle in 7mm-08 | |||
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dgkenned1 wrote: Quote: Barnes X bullets are known for causing much more pressure than soft lead cored projectiles. You need to find some Barnes data. What works w/ your SSTs could very well be too much for the X bullets. Now, Barnes claims the new Triple Shock does not have the pressure problems. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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i tend to agree with kk. i had the same experience with barnes bullets in a 25/06 during load development. with nosler bal tips "no problem". with barnes X everything else exactly the same : new brass, primer,powder,OAL,i was flattening primers and blew the third one out!!!! SCARED THE BEJESUS OUT OF ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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Quote: so what did you do wm f.,stop loading barnes "x's"? dave. | |||
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Barnes (X bullets specifically) are harder and generally have a longer bearing surface for weight since there's no lead in 'em. You cannot (should not) substitute Brand Y bullet data for Barnes X bullets directly on a weight of bullet basis. When I decided to load Barnes X bullets, I sprung for their loading manual. Barnes lists 40.5 grains as Max. for both Varget and RL15 with their 140 gr. X in 7mm-08, with Remington cases and Rem. 91/2 primers. Regards, Woody | |||
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Quote: Well, your first mistake is using a Hornady manual for a Barnes bullet. If you shoot a Barnes bullet and Varget, then the 2 load manuals that should be open on your bench at the same time is the BARNES AND HODGDON MANUALS ONLY. You should never use a different bullet manual from the brand you are shooting. Some may disagree with this but I am 100% confident on this opinion and you cannot change my mind. If you switch to IMR, get their manual as well.  Check head space, as mentioned before. Make sure you are not on the lands, also already mentioned. Calibrate your scale or powder measure or both. Weigh each load while working up your test loads. Make sure the primers seat snug. Good luck | |||
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The Barnes manual states as a starting load for the 140 gr. being 36.5 and max. at 40.5, this is considered a recommended powder for accuracy also. I would definitely start with the min. and see what your primer looks like. The TSX version of the X bullet may be more to your liking since it produces less pressure problems than the regular X and most folks including me see them as more accurate and have a higher velocity capability. Also be sure that your .050 off the lands with the Barnes which is also stated in their manual as a starting OAL. Good luck!  | |||
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I agree with Savage. Ditch the standard Barnes and get triple shocks. Fouling has never been an issue with my rifles and accuracy is unbelievable. | |||
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did i say primers flattening on starting loads, how bout' flattening with no powder or bullet? everything checked out, small enough powder charge, bullet .060 from lands, head space o.k. so i thought i'd try a different brand of primer. since all my brass was capped, i thought i'd discharge a couple of cases in the rifle, decap and recap with a different primer, cci 200 lr (was using win. wlr) and try starting load again. (35.0gr. rl 15) But when i examined the primer, it had flattened. what? i loaded a few rounds with the cci's and the primers looked normal. guess i'll sh**can those win. primers. ended up with a load of 40.5gr of rl 15 under the 140gr. barnes "x" with a vel. of 2637 fps average for 2161 lbs. m.e. it will shoot 3 shots in to 7/8" with the model 7's 20" skinnya*s barrel. i'm happy. i'd like to thank everbody for all the input. p.s. do you think the vel. is high enough? thanks again, dave. | |||
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velocity is fine. Just to let you know, when Barnes introduced the TSX, they had to modify the hollow point for expansion. They wanted the bullet to open up fast, (by the way, they DO!). Since the new hollow point worked so well, they now do the same hollow point in the standard barnes and the XLC. | |||
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It's the primers. I bought a bag of primed Winchester 308 and some of them were flat before I even shot them. Flattened primers don't mean didly squat by itself. I have shot different factory loads and had flat primers. Now if you have primers falling out, holes in them, or black rings around the pockets, that should tell you something. | |||
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If they just fall into the primer pocket with little or no pressure, then you indeed have too-high pressures! 
Whenever brass is damaged by a load, the load needs to be cut at least 5%.