Where does one know where I can find reloading info on this cart.? Also where can one find brass and reloading dies for it? Can .375X2.5 Flanged brass be formed from some other case?(.405 Winchester?) At this point I can't even find a drawing of the cart...thanks for any help that you offer...cheers mic

Mbogo 375 at these forums shoots his .375x2.5 inch quite a bit. Perhaps you should try positing your question in the "Medium bores" forum...he hangs out there quite a bit. Or, alternatively, look up his name in the membership list and send him a private inquiry.

In the meantime, if I get the chance tomorrow I will try to look up some of my old data from 35 years ago for you. I used to have several nice Brit sporters in that chambering and I only shot my own handloads 99% of the time. Will see what I can find in my records as to loads and what I used for basic brass.

In the mean time, have a Merry Christmas.

I believe Bertram is the sole supplier of brass for this job. Given their reputation, you should order a few samples before jumping in for 100 of them. Both Buffalo Arms and Huntington's sells this.

It can be formed from .405 brass, but you must thin the rims (not a trivial operation) and perhaps the neck as well. You could talk to Buffalo Arms. They convert .30-40 brass into .405 brass, and if you sweet talk them (ie. convince them there is a big enough market for the stuff) they could certainly make the .375 that way.

Based on QuickLOAD numbers, I'd start at 40 gn of ReLoder 15 and work up to 2000 fps with the 270 gn bullets (26" bbl). Based on Powley Computer numbers, I'd start with 40 gn of 4895 and work up.

quote:

Originally posted by Low Wall:
Where does one know where I can find reloading info on this cart.? Also where can one find brass and reloading dies for it? Can .375X2.5 Flanged brass be formed from some other case?(.405 Winchester?) At this point I can't even find a drawing of the cart...thanks for any help that you offer...cheers mic

I have a set of RCBS 375x2.5 dies. I've got some brass also (don't remember how much.) PM me if you are interested.

Still haven't had a chance to go downstairs and check my own data from 30 years ago. BUT, have had a chance to look in both Donnelly's and Howell's books.

Donnelly recommends using .405 brass, but cautions that to do that one must reduce rim diameter to .523" and rim thickness to .061". (If you do that, be sure to reduce the rim thickness from the FRONT side of the rim, to keep from perhaps ending up with too shallow a primer pocket. May not be necessary with all makes of .405 brass, but might be with some others.)

Howell recommends making the brass from 9.3x74 cases and does not mention any rim diameter reduction requirements, nor rim thinning,

One of the reasons you may not be finding more info on the cartridge is that some still call it by its original name, which was the .375 Flanged Nitro Express...

Dear Low Wall,

What kind of rifle do you have?

I've used brass made from 405 Win brass. It came with a set of dies I bought so I don't know what was done to form it (other than resizing and trimming to length) but so far it's worked fine.

CH4D sells dies - may want to check them out.

I 2nd the recommendation of RL-15 as a powder of choice. Ross Seyfried claims that if you multiply the cordite charge by 1.19, you'll get the correct charge of RL-15. This actually worked for my rifle, which was regulated for 40 gr of cordite and a 270gr bullet.

Hope this helps!

Washougal Chris

Do a google search for 375x2.5,i did and found some info/loads that was on the nitro express forum from mbogo375.i think ken waters book pet loads my have some info as well?Good Luck!

Alberta Canuck,asdf,new_guy WashougalChris and blackbearhunter...thank you all for the information...I'am looking for a cart. to drive a .375cal 255-265gr. cast bullet in the 2000-2200fps area at fairly low pressures (38000-42000)...Case must be easily formed from ready available brass and have a neck of at least .400" and be rimmed...there are two rifles I'am considering having this chambered for if I can go with the .405WCF case....one is a Winchester/USRAC that I have ordered in .405WCF take down and a Browing Low Wall presently chambered in a .22 Hornet....This may be too much cart. for the lite wt. Low Wall... but with a heavier 26" barrel it could work out fine..
thinning the rim on a .405WCF wouldn't be needed if I had the rifles chambered for a thicker rim......
Alberta Canuck does Howell have a drawing of this cart. in his book?...I miss placed my copy of his book when I moved 4 years ago and sorely miss it...sure way to find it is to order another one....what is the case neck lenght?...thanks again to all of you and a Happy New year to you....cheers mic

Check out graff & sons,They have the brass listed on there web site.steves pages show some loads.

Yes, both Donnelly & Howell's book's have drawings in them. Howell's drawing is from the Birmingham Proof House, but does not show the overall length of the cartridge with a bullet seated in it. Donnelly's book doesn't either, but does give a suggested OAL of 3.10".

I also found some of my old loads. My basic fireforming load was the Ideal (AKA Lyman) 375449 bullet with 40.0 grs of AA-2230, while my standard working load was 40.0 grs of IMR 3031 with the Hornady 270 gr. RN bullet. (I'm not even sure they still make that bullet...may all be spire points today.)

I was going to caution you not to try to make a magnum of it...that was never its intent. Mostly, factory loads were loaded to about the equivalent of what you want to do with it....sort of the Brit equivalent of the U.S. .38-55 Hi-Speed loading, except with a heavier bullet. The 3031 load I listed above shot exactly to point of aim using the 100-yard leaf on my Dan'l Fraser take-down Mauser. In other words, POI was exactly the same as with Kynoch factory loads at 100 yards.

My records say I made much of my brass from both .30-40 Krag and .303 British. Both come out too short, with the Brit even shorter than the Krag. Depending on the make of the brass, they can be anywhere from .100" to .300" too short.

BUT, even with brass that short, they work just fine. Just seat the bullets out enough to get the correct overall length for your rifle. (It's the same trick handgun shooters used to use to get heavier loads into .38 Special cases for use in .357 Mag revolvers when they first came on the market.) That way the useable powder capacity will be right, and the cartridges will feed okay from the many both Mannlicher and Mauser magazine rifles chambered in old blighty for that round.

BTW, for anyone who might be thinking of something like that cartridge but who wants to simplify brass availability, you can also make a very fine, very similar case using rimmed 7x57-R or 8x57-R brass. I have one of those in a Ruger No. 1, and it is a great ballistic duplicate (or a little more) of the .375 Nitro Express. Because of the great extractor design in the Ruger, you can then use either rimmed or rimless brass in the same rifle, interchangeably.

A.C.: I'm rather embarrassed I didn't think of just fire-forming the .30-40, leaving a .375 case a wee bit short -- good suggestion.

I formed my brass from 30-40 Krag aas has been mentioned. It comes out about 1/8" short but you don't have to play with rim diameter or thickness altough in your case this would not be a problem. I load Speer 235 SPs over 44 gr of 3031 andf get about 1950 FPS, this load shoots 3" high to my sights but is a good deer and pig load. Cast load is a Lyman 265GC over 38 Gr of 3031, a bit slower but also accurate and right on the sights at 100 yds. Best.

Dear 50 Calshtr,

What kind of rifle do you have? Mine is a converted M1892 Mannlicher.

I'd be curious to know what types of rifles others are shooting that we're originally chambered for this round. Alberta Canuck's reference is the first I've heard this round being used in a Mauser, but I think it was also chambered in Lee-Enfield sporters?

Thanks,
Washougal Chris

I used to have an H&H '92 Mannlicher in .375 2-1/2" and magazine length limited the OAL to around 3.120". Wish I still had that one! One of my all-time favorite rifles is a Lancaster hammer underlever single shot in .375 2-1/2" that likes 270 Hornady round nose bullets loaded to an OAL of 3.340" with enough IMR 3031 to get to about 2000 fps. Years ago I bought 100 Bertram cases that needed rims both thinned and reduced in diameter, but otherwise they have worked well.

You can still get loaded ammo for .375 2-1/2", put up in decent brass, from the Westley Richards agency in Bozeman, http://www.westleyrichards.com/ or new Kynoch ammo from Galazan's, http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/ for a bit less. Both are boxer primed and have the right headstamp, something I prefer even if expensive to get.

the only loads i can find are in cartridges of the world , start below and work up , as for cases try 405s reformed , some , not all need to be thinned at the rim , just depends upon your rifles chamber and breech face , so try and see , 285 grn bullets / 4895/ 54 grains for 2040 mv. 260 grn bullets /3031/ 46 grs for 1890 mv happy hunting , and i liked the idea of 303 or 30-40 brass , as are cheaper , and seem thinner at rim , might be better as is suggested by the guys who know better , i know im gonna try them next time i got to make some .

Washougal Chris
Mine is also built on a 1892/3 Dutch Mannlicher action, in my case by Cogswell and Harrison. Mine was a basket case when I bought it for the princely sum of $75 (remember, ya can't buy the ammo at Wally World) so I've spent some very enjoyable time taking some, not all, of the dings out of the stock, adding a missing leaf to the express sight and making a barrel mounted sling stud in the old ring style and rust bluing the metal. The bore is in great shape so it's turned into a nice shooting rifle, one of the smoothest actions around. Be sure you gather up all of the ammo clips you can find, without them it's just a fancy single shot. Best

Interesting post and congrats on acquiring your Coggie! I have a pair of Brit sporters in 6.5x53r on the '92 Mannlicher and love them. I have seriously been considering doing up the 375-2-1/2 on a spare Dutch '93 action I have. Last time I checked, Gun Parts Corp(Numerich) still listed the clips in stock. If you ever get tired of your Coggie, Drop me a line!
Lee.

So far we've got examples of Mannlicher models by Cogswell & Harrison, H&H, and mine is from William Evans. Any others out there?

I find the progression of 375 caliber cartridges and rifles in the early 20th century very interesting. There's the 375 x 2.5 Flanged that we're talking about, then I think H&H came out with an early belted round, Steyr came out with the 9.5x57 in 1910, and H&H came back out on top (for good) with the 375 H&H.

Washougal Chris

quote:

Originally posted by WashougalChris:
So far we've got examples of Mannlicher models by Cogswell & Harrison, H&H, and mine is from William Evans. Any others out there?

I find the progression of 375 caliber cartridges and rifles in the early 20th century very interesting. There's the 375 x 2.5 Flanged that we're talking about, then I think H&H came out with an early belted round, Steyr came out with the 9.5x57 in 1910, and H&H came back out on top (for good) with the 375 H&H.

Washougal Chris

What would also be neat is if some of the fellows that own these rifles could post pictures of them as I for one have never seen one.....cheers mic

Cogswell & Harrison 375 FNE

Washougal Chris