There's not much written on this subject and thus I would like to gather as much input as possible on in what ways loading techniques differ for getting top accuracy from straight walled cases vs bottlenecked. For this discussion I'm only interested in rifles. In my case a 45win mag Stevens 200 build.

I've found reloading the 45-70, that when you send the neck expander down in the case, it can create a buldge to one side instead of centered. to keep it centered, I just start expanding the neck, then pull it out and turn the case 180 degrees. then i push the handle back down to where I was stopped and let up just slightly to let the case head go where it wants to in the shell holder. Then I push the handle all the way down. This seams to keep the buldge centered while expanding.

I also rotate the case at least 3-4 times when seating a bullet.

There is quite a bit written on the subject but it is for BP rifle cartridges and Schuetzen type rifles.
Almost by definition you are talking about low velocity rounds. To maintain good accuracy past 100 yards requires long heavy bullets. Many of the pistol caliber barrels do not have a fast enough twist for long heavy bullets.
Like the .22 LR, short slow bullets are very wind sensitive.

The 45 win mag looks like a long 45acp. No rim or shoulder to headspace on. So my guess is accuracy tips appling to the acp would work here. Remove end play by seating the bullet into the lands if possible. Size the case as little as possible, size to the base of the bullet(RCBS tip) it don't work in my auto acp's, feeding problems. gohip2000 problem is the flrs die is sizing the case down to much, custom dies help here, not sure you can get custom carbide dies. The bullet bulge showing on the case does not hurt accuracy in the acp. It will be interesting to see what other have to say that own a rifle in 45 win mag.

1. weight sort brass
2. same trim length
3. partial size just enough to hold bullet

note; i don't crimp bullet.

interesting interesting


A couple points

For my purposes I'll be relying on H-110/ww296 a lot for my propellant needs. These two powders are notorious for needing at least some crimp.

Annealing----- In your experiance do straight cases benefit from this after a few loadings as bottlenecked rounds do.

On straight walled higher pressure rounds in rifles, does your case lengths grow, stay the same, or I/ve even heard of cases getting shorter

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
For my purposes I'll be relying on H-110/ww296 a lot for my propellant needs. ...

I'd encourage you to totally rethink the Powder, it is totally WRONG! You need to use one of the High Bulk Powders for doing this, so you do not have Hang-Fires or Ka-Booms.

I knew a guy at the Range who had a single shot Browning 45-70. He was shooting Paper Jacket Lead Bullets with High Bulk Powder and cutting some very impressive groups. Plus he showed me some Loads that were nipping at the heels of the 458WinMag, also with Paper Jackets.

No doubt that Case Prep and Weight Sorting helps my groups, but they seem to have less effect as the Cases increase in size. Dosen't matter though, I still do all of it anyhow.

quote:

Annealing----- In your experiance do straight cases benefit from this after a few loadings as bottlenecked rounds do.

It depends on how much difference there is between your Chamber and Die. The less the Case Neck is reformed between shots, the longer it will last. And it can also vary with different Lots of Cases. A proper Annealing won't hurt anything and it will eventually save Cases for you.

quote:

On straight walled higher pressure rounds in rifles, does your case lengths grow, stay the same, or I/ve even heard of cases getting shorter

They can do everything you mentioned. Starting with Shortening, it happens because the Case Wall occasionally gets drawn reward as the Case expands. Does not always happen though.

Then when the Case is Re-Sized, the "Widened" portion is push Forward as it is squeezed back into Spec.

Case doing nothing is where the Load doesn't have enough Power to Expand the Case a whole lot. But, this is the least possible event, because when there is enough Pressure to get the Bullet out of the Barrel, there is enough Pressure to Expand "most" Cases.

Best of luck to you.

Use a Lyman "M" die for the expanding/belling.

HOTCORE-- WW296 and H110 not suitable for 45 win mag? Are you sure you're not confusing this with .458 win mag?

Because every single source of data I have lists these two propellants as top dog and at 28grs would be quite a casefull

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
HOTCORE-- WW296 and H110 not suitable for 45 win mag? Are you sure you're not confusing this with .458 win mag? ...

You are correct, I read that as meaning a 458WinMag.

I do not do a lot of Case Prep or any Weight Sorting on Pistol/Revolver cartridges.

The rest of my first post is still accurate for Pistol/Revolver cartridges, but I've never experienced any real problems with them. I now have Carbide Sizers for mine and that was a HUGE improvement over having to do the Lube on them.

Best of luck with your Loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Krochus:
There's not much written on this subject and thus I would like to gather as much input as possible on in what ways loading techniques differ for getting top accuracy from straight walled cases vs bottlenecked. For this discussion I'm only interested in rifles. In my case a 45win mag Stevens 200 build.

Some might argue the point, but I have found that trimming the cases keeps the crimp consistent, from round to round. In revolvers this has shown to effect accuracy more in my loads than just about anything else. Normally I do this on the first load and then check them about every couple of loads thereafter. Depending on the load some might need a touch up some don't, but the end result is as mentioned more consistent crimps and better groups.

For your case you might want to play with it a bit, starting with as little as you can get by with and adding to it as necessary. I have found that too many folks get overly carried away with the crimp using those particular powders. I use just enough to roll the lip of the case over into the bottom edge of the cannalure on the bullets. This seems to provide enough grip combined with the neck tension to hold them firm under any of the loads I shoot.

When I size my cases I generally only run them in far enough to pop the primer, on most this sizes about half or two thirds of the case. The expander only goes in far enough that I can feel the lip being moved out with my thumb nail. The less you have to expand it to get the bullets to seat the longer they will last before splitting the necks. I have never had the need to anneal any of them and I usually loose them long before I get any signs of splits. Then again I am not loading to top end loads in most cases, which will also add to the early demise.

Sounds like a neat combo, hope it all works out well for you.

Crimp- If you headspace on the case mouth, light taper crimp. If the rounds jump crimp in the magazine, take .001" off the expander. Annealing- the case is to short. Plus the process is not exact. Brass will need trimming if like 44mag. All a guess on my part.In the acp, longer brass gives best accuracy. Let us know what you find by shooting/testing.

I load for a 45/70 Marlin and a Ruger #1 45/70 plus a BLR and Marlin in 450Marlin. Using 405gr Rem and Beartooth bullets all shoot .75 and 1 Marlin and the Ruger will shoot 3 shot .5 groups.

I use H322 and IMR4198 powders, Wolf primers, and I anneal the cases after 5 loadings. Brass lasts forver. I use Rem and Starline brass in 45/70 and Hornady brass in 450.

quote:

All a guess on my part.In the acp, longer brass gives best accuracy. Let us know what you find by shooting/testing.

I think I have it made in this department. My new starline brass is VERY uniform varying by no more than .0015 + or - from 1.192" Being a savage with infinitely adjustable headspace this is what I set the barrel to. Things are so close that As it stands now Adding only .004" to a case is enough to prevent chambering. I'll have to see but I'm hoping case length stays pretty stable. If so I may never have to trim.

range report coming up soon!