I have been reading as much on this site as possible over the past several months and I thank all of you who share your knowledge with guys like me. I am just beginning to order all of my reloading equipment and have a question. I have decided that I will be using the RCBS Competition dies. Will I also need the RCBS competition shell holders? If so, is it because the competition shell holder is taller and offers more overall die adjustment? Thanks for your help.

Why do you think the RCBS Competition Dies are your best choice? I think they are vastly overpriced and not in the same performance catagory as my Forster Competion/Micrometer dies.

The only set of RCBS Competition dies I've seen were a copy of the obselete Vickerman seaters in which there is a side window to place the bullet while seating. That's convienent I'm sure but the bullet guide sleeve only sets around the case neck and doesn't support or align the lower case body at all.

The competition RCBS die comes with the shellholder and most are taller/smaller in diameter than regular shell holders to work with the sleeved seater die....the Redding competition shell holder sets are of different thicknesses to adjust the sizing of the case.....and could be used for the sizing of the case and switched out for seating.....hth..good luck and good shooting-loading!!

Loading the bullet in from the side of the die is priceless

Once you've used that style of die you can't go back...

If you can afford the competetion dies go for it, just
remember that there are many cartridges for which
they simply aren't available.


AD

i have been useing a set of herters in-line seating dies lately.once you get over where to put the bullet they are fast and easier on your fingers

Thanks all for your input. There are so many choices. It came down to the Redding and RCBS comp dies because I thought that they would make more concentric loads. I was going with the RCBS because of the bullet loading window. Just thought it would be a matter of convenience/speed all else being equal. But maybe all is not equal?? And just when I think I have it whipped.......

I would not let one opinion deter me from buying the RCBS Competition Seater. The bullet sleeve goes around the neck but also is made to contact the entire shoulder area. The Gold Medal Match Series also encompasses part of the case body.

I have 8 or 10 of the RCBS Competition seaters and 2 of the Redding Competition seaters. Both kinds seat bullets consistantly while maintaining concentricity. I do not have any of the Forster Competition Seaters but would guess that they are not significantly better or that much different than the Redding Competition Seaters.

The RCBS Competition Seater is the way to go and who cares if it is a copy of the Vickerman style. It is not an exact copy anyway but a vast improvement. Buy the RCBS and it will be the last seater you have to get for that caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by nocturnalnasty:
...It came down to the Redding and RCBS comp dies because I thought that they would make more concentric loads...

Achieving concentric loads (i.e. loads with minimal runout) is largely a two stage process. Of the two stages, the first is the most important.

1) runout introduced in the sizing operaton. The sizing operation is normally the biggest contributor to runout, and in particular the use of an expander is generally considered a prime suspect. The best ways I have personally found to reduce runout introduced in this stage is to: a) use a Lee Collet Die - if you are happy to neck size only, and can live with the idiosynchracies of the Collet die (use search function here). b) get a Forster FL seater modified by Forster (cost of modification: 10$ plus shipping) to be able to use die without expander. Such a modified die typically produces runout in the .001" range - excellent. c) if you are planning to shoot bench rest, custom dies (multiple 100$$$$) can be a sensible option.

2) runout introduced in the seating operation. This is normally a much smaller problem than runout introduced with sizing. But there is often *some* runout introduced with seating. I think the best option is to use a good seater, preferably one with sleeve support for the case during the seating operation. My personal preferences are: a) Forster seater - as good as any out there, but as cheap as 1st class seaters come. b) Redding Competition Seater - considerably more expensive than the Forster, and probably a take-off of that design. Better finished though, and an excellent die. c) in-line seaters from companies like Wilson. These are slow to use and require an (extra) arbour press, but they do produce good results. This is probably the way to go if you intend to shoot bench rest, otherwise a Forster or a Redding will probably serve you just as well.

The press you use probably also has some influence. I happen to like Fosters CoAx press, because it allows dies to "float" and thus (hopefully) align themselves during the sizing or seating operation. The CoAx is less practical, though, if you intend to use it for seating of .375 H&H length (and up) cartridges.

I suggest you start out with just a single set of whatever dies you decide to buy - as opposed to buying several sets for multiple calibers. Then see if you like the results you can achieve with the gear you ended up with. If yes, buy more, if not figure out an alternative. I'm currently on my third "stage" in die preferences, and it gets kind of pricey to change all your dies every time your preferences change...

- mike

Two points for your consideration:

The Forster and Redding dies full-chamber seaters replicate the hand dies used by Bench shooters. That is not insignificant. No die that only surrounds the die (OK, and the shoulder) can align the case as well as a full length chamber will.

Second, the post addressing the sizers is absolutely correct, actually the neck expanders are what seems to stretch/bend necks off course a little. To the best of my knowledge, ONLY the Forster BR sizers have a height adjustable expander that can be set to begin expanding the moment the case starts fo move out of the sizer, not while it is free from die contact. That is a critical advantage for getting straight necks.

I loaded 20 rounds of .204 Ruger last night. I bought a Redding 'S' type Competition neck die set to replace my Hornady New Dimension dies as the seater die was out of alignment and causing some of the worst runout I have ever seen - in some of my cases 0.015 and the necks were quite noticibly bent!

Well, after last nights reloading session, the worst bullet runout on those .204 rounds was .002. I was of course thrilled with this but not entirely surprised. I have owned these dies before in 6 x 284mm and same result.

I find that the neck bushing die is by far the best and gives me no runout on my fired cases. Which is great as my fired brass comes out of the chamber in my Kimber at .000 runout. I do not have the expander ball fitted to my neck die, and I am sure this is probably the reason for no runout on my necks. I went with a titanium nitride bushing which I think is the way to go. Last lot of cases I sized I didn't actually lube and when I miked them, I couldn't detect any stretching.

The micrometer competition seating die IMHO I think is the absolute top seating die currently available to reloaders. I do however still partly seat my bullets then turn the case whilst still in the sleeve 90 degrees and finish seating. Old habits die hard but I always end up with practically nil runout. I should also mention when I ordered the above die set from Sinclair I also ordered the appropriate Redding shell holder.


While we are on the subject of runout, I have found that by cutting a large chamfer on the mouth of the case, the bullet aligns itself straighter in the neck & there seems to be less pressure in seating the bullet. I say this because previously I have only put a very light chamfer on the mouth and runout of the bullet was in the neighbourhood of .004 or greater. When I prepped my brass the other night, I cut a larger than normal chamfer (I don't know why I did this), but each round I finished loading I ran over my case gauge and saw a huge improvement in lack of runout - mostly it was 0.