I am getting ready to reload for the first-time finally and have a question regarding powder selection and case capacity....

There are several great powders for the 30-06 cartridge I'll be reloading from what I've been reading...

When selecting a powder I just learned that I should look for a velocity I desire from the manuals...

Okay, I can understand that part now...

But, I've heard it said that one should generally stick with powders that fill up at least 3/4 or more of the case (a compressed load)...It being said it will help a newbie like me from mistakenly double-charging myself and keep my face intact. The other reason I've heard is that the powder will tend to burn more uniformly...Okay I can kind of understand that now...

And here is where my question is derived from...

Is there any danger in selecting a powder that uses considerably less powder in the cartridge?

The example: 30-06 180grain bullet

IMR 4350 (56gr.max) vs. IMR 4064 (49gr. max)
.......MV@2801fps................MV@2710fps

Per Lymans 48th Edition as example...

A difference of 7 grains of powder & -91/fps...

It seems to me that IMR 4064 is a brilliant powder selection....

I can load alot more rounds for my money per 8 lb. cannister of powder and I would extend my barrel life by alot more rounds also...And I would still be esctatic that I had only lost a meezly 91fps in that entire trade-off of a DEAL as I have recently learned...

So the only thing I can think of is why aren't more people using this powder over the ever so popular H/IMR 4350 in a 30-06...

BTW, which is what I was kindly recommended to use and was happy and planning to use, until I researched some manuals and saw the versatile and dependable IMR 4064. I decided to research the powder itself through the IMR web-site and found out how incredible it is in a wide variety of cartridges...

The benefits of the IMR 4064 is outstanding in my opinion from an individual who has not reloaded yet...

I thought I read something a good while back where if you didn't have enough powder in the case when the rifle was at certain angles the primer might have a difficult time igniting the powder properly and it could jump over the laid out powder and cause a real bad pressure spike or something that could cause injury...

I understand that there is a powder for everyone's individual criteria...

Just so happens IMR 4064 is looking really good right now and fits my needs for an upcoming hunt...

How important is it to select a powder that will fill the case?

Is it one from a safety issue or just for max velocities?

Shouldn't IMR 4064 be safe as it is a published load...

Stevespages lists IMR 4064 using 180gr as his accuracy load...

I would like to learn the principles and theories of reloading and this kind of baffled me this evening, so I thought I'd ask...

With the prices of components and everything sky-rocketing these days I wanted to try and be as efficent as possible as I embark on my reloading endeavors...

Sorry for such a newbie question...just trying to understand a little by little...Thanks for your help!

I've found powder selection to be VERY important in getting optimal accuracy and the powder doesn't always fill the case. If the load is published in a manual, it should be safe.

Also, I don't look at a manual and decide on the powder by what velocity I want. I look at a manual to find out what powder gave the optimal accuracy and if that gave the best velocity, so much the better.

IMR 4064 should be good in a 30/06 though I haven't used it in this cartridge. I get excellent results in my 30/06 with Varget.

The many powders that will work in it is one of the great things about the .30-06. I use RL19 in mine because it works exceptionally well with my chosen bullet. But you seem to be trying to select a powder without firing a shot. And that doesn't work.

What are you going to do when 4064 gives you 3" groups with your preferred bullet?

Seriously, what are you going to do if 4064 gives very poor accuracy with your chosen bullet? Once you marry her, it's a little late to learn she doesn't cook.

You may get lucky and the 180 grain bullet you want to use may perform exceptionally well with 4064, but what if it doesn't? You have only three choices: 1) live with it, but accepting lousy accuracy kinda defeats a purpose of handloading; 2) try a different bullet; 3) try a different, GASP!, powder.

My somewhat exagerated point is that you should be perusing manuals to see what powders are available that give acceptable velocity with the bullet you'd like to use and no more. Then pick one (perhaps the one you have on hand) and load some bullets and try it out. Then try some more. 4064 might give very good accuracy in your rifle, but IMR 4350 might give exceptional accuracy.

All rifles are quite different. The bullet/powder combination that excels in my rifle may stink in yours. Powder is just powder. If it works in that rifle and load great; if not, put it back on the shelf for another project. As Grumulkin said, powder selection is often the key to accuracy, and if you prefer a particular bullet (and you should be picking the bullet not the powder), then you may have to try several powders to get the accuracy you want or can achieve.

And for the moment quit worrying about filling the case and volume of load and saving a few grains with one load over another. Use loads from respected manuals and learn the basics and get out and do it a bit.

LWD

With most powder/starting charge combos for the 30-06, it would be real hard to fit a double charge in the case (IOW they take up at least 3/4 of the case).
Side note, 61.5gr of RE-19 will be anywhere from the base of the neck to 2/3 of the way up the neck, depending on how the powder settles, until you "vibrate" it down and even than it will be just below at the base of the neck

How many rounds do you plan to shoot with your hunting rifle and what kind of accuracy are you going to be happy with?

I ask these questions because from a hunting perspective you generally won't be going through alot of powder that you'd have to worry about a few grains or be looking for "absolute" accuracy. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a load using either 4064 or 4350 that'll suit your hunting needs. Personally, I'd start off with 1 lb of 4350, the only powder I use for my 30-06 now unless I'm playing around, and see how that goes.

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
The many powders that will work in it is one of the great things about the .30-06. I use RL19 in mine because it works exceptionally well with my chosen bullet. But you seem to be trying to select a powder without firing a shot. And that doesn't work.

What are you going to do when 4064 gives you 3" groups with your preferred bullet?

Seriously, what are you going to do if 4064 gives very poor accuracy with your chosen bullet? Once you marry her, it's a little late to learn she doesn't cook.

You may get lucky and the 180 grain bullet you want to use may perform exceptionally well with 4064, but what if it doesn't? You have only three choices: 1) live with it, but accepting lousy accuracy kinda defeats a purpose of handloading; 2) try a different bullet; 3) try a different, GASP!, powder.

My somewhat exagerated point is that you should be perusing manuals to see what powders are available that give acceptable velocity with the bullet you'd like to use and no more. Then pick one (perhaps the one you have on hand) and load some bullets and try it out. Then try some more. 4064 might give very good accuracy in your rifle, but IMR 4350 might give exceptional accuracy.

All rifles are quite different. The bullet/powder combination that excels in my rifle may stink in yours. Powder is just powder. If it works in that rifle and load great; if not, put it back on the shelf for another project. As Grumulkin said, powder selection is often the key to accuracy, and if you prefer a particular bullet (and you should be picking the bullet not the powder), then you may have to try several powders to get the accuracy you want or can achieve.

And for the moment quit worrying about filling the case and volume of load and saving a few grains with one load over another. Use loads from respected manuals and learn the basics and get out and do it a bit.

LWD

Great Advice!!!
Thanks for the info and I completely understand what you are addressing...

That was concise and very straight to the point, I gotcha loud and clear!!!

I appreciate your time and effort into having me understand that...

Thank you very much,

Roland

49.0g of IMR-4064 W/165gX is my go to accuracy load in 3 30-06 rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:
49.0g of IMR-4064 W/165gX is my go to accuracy load in 3 30-06 rifles.

Just wondering anyone else can attest to IMR 4064 with a 180 gr bullet?

quote:

Originally posted by can06:
How many rounds do you plan to shoot with your hunting rifle and what kind of accuracy are you going to be happy with?

I ask these questions because from a hunting perspective you generally won't be going through alot of powder that you'd have to worry about a few grains or be looking for "absolute" accuracy. I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find a load using either 4064 or 4350 that'll suit your hunting needs. Personally, I'd start off with 1 lb of 4350, the only powder I use for my 30-06 now unless I'm playing around, and see how that goes.

Actually I'll be shooting alot of ammo as I want to practice off-hand shooting and shooting off sticks for my Namibia Plains Game Hunt...

With me and my 18 yr old son shooting that'll be alot of ammo for sure....

I got 8 months of practicing on our rifles...

We will train very hard for this dream hunt of ours...

We have only taken up the sport for a year now and only have gone on two hunts thus far in our islands for pigs, goats, and rams. Our first hunt was only 5 months ago and my second two months ago...

We haven't even gone deer hunting yet for that matter and will not have the chance by the time of our scheduled African hunt in 8 months!

We will practice and practice and practice so that when its time we will be confident at least of our shooting capabilities as well as our limitations... We want to be able to take the perfect shot when called upon and even on those less than perfect angles as the need occurs...

I can't afford shooting factory ammo in 180gr partitions for sure so its about time I start reloading...

Once I develop a load for both of our 30-06 rifles, then I will load cheaper bullets for most of our practicing say like Winchester Power-Points which both of them already shoot 100 yds MOA and better...

I would appreciate anyones help in reloading if you have the time...I could use the advice and guidance...

I have a LEE Cast Single-Stage Press and Lee deluxe Die-set, scale, trimmers and tumbler...
Pretty much everything except Powder and waiting for my delivery of 500 180gr NP's...

I have once-fired Winchester brass and WLR primers but will get some CCI 200 primers too just in case...

If you got the heart to teach me I'll be the best student you ever had...I'm all ears!!!

Sorry for my desperate plea for HELP, but 8 months will be around the corner in a FLASH!!!

Aloha!

don't know if i can be of help to you, but in answer to which powder to choose: In general the best accuracy comes from a case that is 100% full. While it is not always the case there are few things in reloading that are. In general when starting a load for a new caliber I will consult at least 5 or 6 manuals and correlate between them. There is usually a rather common denominator with one or two powders giving the highest velocity/pressure etc. That gives you a start. Now you don't need that many manuals, but in 50 years or so of reloading i've sort accumulated a bunch of them. You will see a thousand posts of which primer to use, and what i've found over the years is that they're all good, and very little difference is found between them. over all length is a frequent comment with the idea that the bullet must touch the lands to best accuracy, and my findings mirror sierra guys answer to this as b.s. (boy am i gonna get a bunch of heat) Also in general i find that if the barrel is good, it really doesn't matter what load i run through it, the gun will be accurate, and if the barrel is bad, nothing really seems to work. Loading is an objective thing, not a subjective one. What works for works, and what doesn't doesn't. There are those who insist on weighing each powder charge, and those who do it all by powder measure. I'm one of the measure guys. My best words to you would be to relax and enjoy the process of rolling your own, getting better accuracy and performance than factory and doing so as considerable savings. after awhile it may come to be that you enjoy reloading more than shooting.

Roland, I hope I did not offend you. I was trying to be a bit emphatic to make a point, and if I went over the top, I apologize.

I think there's a certain amount of black magic and voodoo in this. Why one rifle does well with one combination and not another is hard to fathom especially when another rifle does the opposite.

Don't rush to upgrade from a single stage press. Once you get some experience and practice, you will be able to turn out ammo pretty quickly with a single stage press. I do recommend an electronic scale though, if you don't have one.

LWD

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things Late-Blommer, practice is the key point.

For most of my 30-06 practice at the range I tend to shoot lighter (and cheaper) bullets and loads which my shoulder greatly appreciated at the end of the day.

Good luck on your hunt and have fun!

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:
Roland, I hope I did not offend you. I was trying to be a bit emphatic to make a point, and if I went over the top, I apologize.

I think there's a certain amount of black magic and voodoo in this. Why one rifle does well with one combination and not another is hard to fathom especially when another rifle does the opposite.

Don't rush to upgrade from a single stage press. Once you get some experience and practice, you will be able to turn out ammo pretty quickly with a single stage press. I do recommend an electronic scale though, if you don't have one.

LWD

Quite the contrary my friend, you made some great points and you speak my language...

I told my son how come my reloading books don't say it as plainly as you...it would save me a bunch of time...but anyways I'm in it for the long haul...

PM me if you got any more goodies to tell me...Like I said you speak my language!!!

Thanks a million!

Aloha!

quote:

Originally posted by can06:
Sounds like you've got a good handle on things Late-Blommer, practice is the key point.

For most of my 30-06 practice at the range I tend to shoot lighter (and cheaper) bullets and loads which my shoulder greatly appreciated at the end of the day.

Good luck on your hunt and have fun!

Thanks for all your replies I appreciate it...
Would 150gr be good enough or lighter for practice...

quote:

Originally posted by Late-Bloomer:
Thanks for all your replies I appreciate it...
Would 150gr be good enough or lighter for practice...

It really depends on your setup, your tolerance to recoil, how many rounds you shoot, etc. I'd normally shoot 30-60 rounds a session but I'd never repeat that the next day or two as my shoulder would be so tender I'd probably start to develop a flinch ... exactly what you don't want to happen. Sure 150s are good, I've shot quite a number of Sierra 110gr HPs for practice and I still do. That's one of the great things about reloading, with a little bit of testing you can make *almost* any bullet work good enough for normal hunting.

For practice, don't overlook the .22lr. The best thing I ever did was buy a very accurate high quality (Kimber) .22LR. It is far more accurate than I ever could be and is the most accurate weapon I own. Because it is built as a scaled down big game rifle, it is excellent for practice.

Also, when downloading rounds or using lighter bullets for practice, you may have to play around a bit to get something that shoots to approximately the same point of aim as the primary load. I think it is very confidence instilling to put the rounds and see the rounds going where they are aimed. I.e I don't think the practice will be nearly as good mentally if the practice or reduced loads don't hit the point of aim.

LWD

I am at work so I cannot verify this but my old Pacific manual listed a seperate set of match loads for the .30/06 and one of the powders was 4064. I think that was because some of the loads were set up specifically for autoloaders.

quote:

Just wondering anyone else can attest to IMR 4064 with a 180 gr bullet?

yeah Roland, I can!

but despite everyone's pet load choices... it is hard to find a powder that is bad in the 30/06...just depends on what you want for velocity... many will give excellent accuracy...

the 06 may not be the most inherently accurate cartridge ever designed.. but it has always been more than accurate enough to get the jobs assigned to it done, with power to spare in most instances...

4064 is a good choice of powder for a wide variety of cartridges...

its grains are a little too big to do a lot of reloading in 22 caliber bore diameters, if you are in a hurry...

but if I had to cut down the number of powders that I use, to just 5, believe me 4064 would be one the first of those that I keep..

I even use it in my 338 Win Mags.. It is short about 100 fps of Max Velocity of some of the slower powders, but it is much more accurate than with the other powders in my two 338s..

it is also a real strong performer in my 338/06... and my 270, and my 7 x 57, and my 260, and my 243, and my 30/30 and my 300 Win Mag, and my 22/250 and my 223,.. and well you get the picture...

and as far as bullets.. set yourself up with a 1000 from Midway of the Rem 180 Corelokt.. that will give you plenty of economical practice loads... switch to a partiton come hunting time if you feel the need for a premium...but a good old corelokt has taken many many game animals on the Mainland, with no need to apologize for lack of performance...

cheers
seafire

Hey Seafire,

Thanks for all the info...

I appreciate all your suggestions and examples, I finally gotta get to the bench to roll that first one...

Just doing some last minute research on powder selection and stuff...

Take care and talk to you soon my friend...