I was thinking of buying this book through a mail order catalog. Is it any good? Is there good info, tips, and troubleshooting? What do you think of it? It doesn't contain load data, does it?

It is informative on the "how to" basics of reloading and bullet casting, plus it has a few good formulas in it for things like reduced loads and calculating energy from velocity.

It does have load data in it for most popular calibers but I rarely use it because unless the data has been updated since my copy was printed the data will in alot of cases conflict with more recently published data.

This book is a total waste of paper. Poorly written, poorly edited, and all the load data is lifted directly from powder manufacturers' FREE load pamphlets. I guess that info is public domain, so it could be included in the book. No point in Richard Lee wasting his time doing any real research. After reading the book, I wouldn't trust any data generated by him anyway.

In this book, Lee badmouths other brands of reloading equipment, shamelessly touts his stuff as the best, and regales the reader with useless stories of how he has conducted dangerous "experiments" (my dad would have called it "goofing off") to illustrate just how dangerous reloading can be. I especially like the part about purposely loading a .22-250 cartridge above maximum safe pressures, ducking under a table to avoid being killed if the rifle blew up (evidently he didn't care if he lost his hand), and then blowing a hole in the windshield of his '72 Barracuda (which his insurance company refused to cover, he then informs us). I'm not sure what I was supposed to learn from that story.

Perhaps the most telling part of the book, and the only part that shed any light on anything, was when Dick Lee talks about how most competitor's reloading equipment is "overbuilt" (whatever that means), and you needlessly pay more for cast iron presses than aluminum. He then states that the reason everyone reloads is to save money, right?

That explains why all of his company's products are junk, but cheap.

In short, there is nothing in this book that can't be found elsewhere in a more readable and less commercial format. As for the reloading process itself, he tells you how to use HIS equipment. That's it. He even regurgitates the instruction manuals from some of the equipment verbatim. For someone who has never loaded a cartridge before, and has no idea how to do it, after reading his instructions, they'd still have no idea how to do it.

Save the money, buy a decent book from Speer, Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Hodgdon, Vihtavouri, Norma, Lapua, Barnes, Swift, A-Square, etc... Forget this trash.

If you think I'm exagerrating, get the book, read it, then be prepared to be extremely disappointed. You've paid money for nothing more than a Lee advertisement.

The book is about the same quality as most other Lee products: The Lowest of the Low.

Maybe that's why everywhere I see it for sale, it's at half price. Hey, you reload to save money, right? Might as well start saving money on your reloading manuals too...

6.5 Guy...

I L-O-V-E-D your assessment of Lee, his equipment, his attitude towards equipment, his attitude towards his compititors, towards "wasteful cast iron and steel" and his attitude towards his customers...

... RIGHT ON TARGET !!

CatShooter.

I highly recomend Lee's modern reloading and here is why. First the books buy the bullet boys are printed to sell thier bullets. Lee gives data on a wide varity of powders and bullets, including lead. He teaches handloading, casting and offers other useful information in a simple to understand fashion. Second, he does not spout trash and self serving bs as it seems some have bought into. His statemets about equipment that is overbuilt is simply true. It may fly in the face of the "marketing" of the guys who get twice as much money for equipment that does the same job. Lee has started many loading with his "hand and hammer" powered Lee Loaders. Many knowageable loaders with expensive Cast Iron presses carry the lee loader to the range and produce their "most accurate" loads with it. The Lee manual is a must have. It has good data as well as information and despite the opinions of some, He has relavant knowledge which he shares. After you get the lee manual the next to get is the Lyman manual. your third book could be the Speer. Buy the lee and enjoy. JB
"

Well I am back again. I guess 6.5 guys comments got me to question my respect for Lee. I grabbed my Lee and my new Spear and Lee won hands down. I flipped it open and where should I land, plain old 308 in 150 grain bullets. Here it is. Lee manual, 35 read thirty-five! Powders with loads and the Spear 15! Lee gives pressure for each load not Speer, lee gives powder volume, not Speer. Both give cart dimensions and min max load. Load data was very similar if any comment could be made it looked like the Lee data was a bit more conservative than the Speer. Not the worst for a beginner. Now you would expect the Speer to have more bullet weights to choose from as well after all that is their business. Wrong. Lee 16 bullets by weight and the Speer 9. I would say the Speer book is Cheap on data. I say it again with confidence. Buy the Lee Modern Reloading manual. JB

Thanks for the replies.

I've decided not to get this book. If I need data I don't have, I guess I can find it on the net. I already have Speer #12 & 13, Nosler #4, Hornady #4, Barnes # 2, and a few free load pamphlets.

I'll save the money and put it towards the Swift book or Nosler's #5.

I'm not gonna get it, sounds like crap. I've already got 5 or 6 manuals already.

Thanks for all the replies.

TB

I have a LEE Manual and I did find some data for cast bullets for my 44mag, 25-35 and 38-55 This is data I could not find in many of my other manuals so it does serve its purpose.
I use RCBS equipment for the most part and the few times I have taught people to handload ammo I required them to read thru the Speer #11 before starting. There is alot of info in the back that you don't find in other manuals and you can learn how to calulate a lot the old fashioned way, with pencil and paper, in case the ol' computer ain't there. And it dont hurt the old brain to think abit either.

If I could only have 2 manuals the second one would be either the Hodgdons or LEE

Wes

The Lee Manual is worthless (but better than the Barnes).

Put me In the "disappointed" group. Data was like described above--pretty much robbed from other sources. AND some of the data seems pretty darn "hot" too.

The data in the Lee manual is inaccurate, and here's why:

Notice in the tables, that the brand and type of bullet isn't mentioned, only the weight. I guess bearing surfaces and jacket hardness levels aren't important factors when loading for a particular bullet. Someone mentioned that Dick includes pressures. Ok, for which bullet in that particular weight? I'll guarantee you that a 180 grain A-Max will generate a different pressure level than a 180 grain Partition, which will be different than a 180 grain X bullet, if they're all sitting over the same charge of RE 15 in a .308 case. The pressures he lists are meaningless. He probably didn't include the bullet type to try to hide the fact he simply stole the data from the powder companies' brochures.

But hey, we're just saving money, right? Who cares about pesky details like those?

If you have a functional command of the English language, you'll find this book to be a painful labor to read. The typos, poor proofreading, and plain lack of proper grammar are truly unbelievable. I guess Dick couldn't afford to hire a real editor to edit his book.

Must've been trying to save money.

I have to agree with most of the other guys about this book. If you want a manual that includes a wide variety of powders then I'd look at the Hodgdon book. A guy should have 3-4 manuals anyway. This Lee book is nothing more than a slick advertisement for their equipment. I'd be interested in the results I'd get using one of their presses tto ful length size some of my brand new .45-120 brass. My RCBS Ammo Master does a great job on this. I'm not impressed with this book. Bear in Fairbanks

6.5 Guy summed it up so well there's little to add. Sit down with the powder companies FREE manuals and you'll see where Lee got his data. The revolver data is particularly useless, since each of the powder companies not only used different guns and barrel lengths, but different cylinder gaps as well, or no cylinder gap. This isn't comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to footballs.

I'll counter the claim that Lee got a lot of people started reloading with his cheap equipment with a question. How many quit in frustration after fighting with his junk? Anyone want a 20 gauge Lee Loader? It took a 2nd hand MEC to get me back into shotshell reloading.

After reading the book, I did an inventory of all the Lee equipment I've replaced with something better, and swore off Richard Lee forever. I'll admit he's 1 part engineering genius, but he's 2 parts huckster.

Put your money towards a good manual (Lyman, Hodgdon, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and there's other good ones I haven't got.) Either that or spend it on ammo, components or equipment better than Lee.

Rant off
Bye
Jack

Well it is clear that you don't care for Lee. Lee clearly states in his manual "Pressure information is almost totally useless to the average handloader��..The important thing is: the pressures listed for the Never Exceed loads are considered the Maximum safe operating pressure by each powder manufacturer." He goes on to state that you should never push beyond the never exceed levels unless you have pressure testing equipment. I for one would like to know the Powder mfgs. stats to compare different loads of the same velocity. I do not feel you have made a case that the Lee data is inaccurate.

As for his verbiage, I see the book for what it is, it is an effort of a manufacturer, not an author, to state his business ideals and show how anyone can afford to take up the hobby and learn to handload and even make their own bullets if they want. And his folksy narrative style would not put off a total novice. His market and his reader is more likely entry level than the cast iron press guys for simple economic reasons. Yes it could have been edited better, and I guess you had a less than pleasant reading experience. I still recommend his manual and his products. I hate to think what the others would charge for their products if they did not have to compete with lee. Even RCBS has come out with a low cost cast aluminum press to compete with lee. Lord knows what they would charge for dies. I for one am glad he is in the game and I will still recommend his book. JB

If you contact Lee directly, you can buy a factory second copy of the book for $8 shipped to your door, I believe. I bought one, only blemish is minor slits through some of the pages.

First off , let me qualify my opinion by saying that I am by no means an experienced reloader. I am fairly new to the hobby so my opinions are based more on what I have read than what I have done. The thing about Lee's data that raises a red flag to me is that in many of the pistol loads he shows pushing the same velocities for lead bullets as he does for jacketed bullets. That goes against most everything I have read . Maybe SOME lead bullets can be pushed like that , but if so , he does not tell you which specific bullet that might be , and speaking for myself , I dont have the knowledge to know which one. I could see where this could cause problems and frustration for those reloaders , who like myself , are just starting.

I checked Lee's data for .45 auto lead and jacketed against the same in my Lyman #46 and they push lead and jacketed to the same velocities 880 to 960 range. Lead cast can handle that. He speaks directly to the fact that lead should be kept under 1500 fps. to get to 2000fps you need hard alloy and a gas check. This all seem to be correct to me and consistant with Lyman. JB

I wasn't going to post any more on this topic but I feel almost certain that for any one person that were steered away from reloading from using Lee's cheap stuff there are probably 5 that were introduced to reloading with the inexpensive kits. I will admitt that I have replaced allmost all of my Lee kit but it was still MY first and I really have some fond memories associated with that cheap kit that introduced me to reloading even if most of it did wear out after a few thousand bottleneck rounds it was an inexpensive way to "get my feet wet" and by the time it wore out I was hooked.

JackM,
After re-reading your statement I apologise for my comments. I see that you did include that alot of people were introduced to reloading with the Lee stuff.

When the book comes with the Kit,the price is right.AS a beginner I read everthing I could get my hands on.The Lee manual is all of the above,both the good and bad.The tone of the book takes the mystery out of reloading,it makes a good counterpoint to the Lymans.

i havent seen the LEE book either. idont see how anyone can learn how to reload from a book. imo you need the guidence of an expeirenced loader as a mentor. i was lucky enough to have a good friend to show me the subtleties of reloading. thanks to harley p for having the patience an understanding to teach me how to reload.

Tasco,

I seem to have learned enough from "the book" to have kept my fingers and eyes intact...... FWIW, Dutch.

Well, I have a couple of sets of Lee dies, a Lee hand press and a Lee 4-die turret press. None of this stuff is in the same quality range as RCBS, Forster, Redding, or even Lyman products. But some of it works. The hand press is OK, but I can't understand why there is no provision for priming on the hand press, and that the priming "arm" on the turret press is such a weak, ineffective arrangement! Actually, for reoading in the field, I prefer the old Lyman 310 tool, if you can find a set of appropriate caliber dies!!You can't really prime efficiently with the Lee turret press, and if you try, you have to handle each primer individually, which I avoid when my hands have been near any sizing lube!! You have to use a Lee priming tool, or some other press/tool to do your priming. Overall, one is much better off to buy someone else's tools!! I have never seen the Lee Reloading manual, and it seems like there's no point in getting one. The Hodgdon manuals at least give some data for other people's powders!!

I have been reloading for 40 years and have used a great number of tools from various companies, and now I buy Lee almost exclusively. I do this because the tools work well and are superbly engineered.

Any fool can make a good tool if given unlimited funds to do it with. It takes a talented engineer to make a tool that does a good job and costs less. This is what Lee does. Their dies are some of the best on the market, maybe the best. They are the company that made carbide pistol dies affordable for most people. Their presses work well, if like any tool, you follow directions. Because of the price, you can afford to buy 4 lee progressive presses for pistol cartridges for the cost of one Dillon, and leave them set up to load 4 different cartridges, plus you don't have to worry about double charges.

The Lee manual is a far better book than Speer or Hornaday, in my opinion, and I have all three. Lee includes all the loads from powder companies, that is one of the main attractions. He includes a lot of information on his tools, I wouldn't expect anything different. He includes a lot of his personal opinion on the way to do things, and I respect that, because I like to learn from others.

When I had to choose a loading manual to give to my daughter to start her reloading career, I gave her a Lee manual. It is simply the best all around manual out there. The ones from bullet companies are just too specialized, as they only give loads for their bullets, not others. The Lee information on cast bullets is worth the price of the book by itself. I just used the formula for reduced cast bullet loads, and it worked great.

Don't be put off by a little pride in ownership expressed by Richard Lee. We are all grown up and know that people are expected to be predjudiced toward their own. I have no stock in Lee, but they have been the most innovative company with the most cost effective products for the last 20 years.

Dessert Rat:

Hear hear ! OUTSTANDING reply! My sentiments exactly. I started with Lee, had some things I didn't like with the turret press and scale and over time replaced them. LOVE the LEE dies, Auto powder measure and Perfect powder measure.

Lee holds an important place in this market. Innovative (most times) products, very good value and excellent product support. It's who got me started in this hobby. I read the book as a total FNG and learned a lot from it. Will an experienced handloader learn from it? No. But, like the Lee products, it's a good place to start. You certainly cannot complain about having a TON of data in one place. If you had the choice of but ONE book to have, what would you pick? The one with the most data, no ??

Let me ask everyone this;

if the Speer book listed 38gr max H110 for a 300gr bullet, and the Lee book listed 33gr max, what would you do?

Would you look closer into it? Or would you just toss out the Lee and trust the Speer?

Here's a hint: Speer has made some typos in the past (as all of them have, I'm sure). Having yet another source for cross reference seems only common sense.

As for the first half, well, Dick Lee does have a personality, and it comes through loud and clear. I would have edited the whole thing much differently, but then again, I didn't write the book or supply the capital to publish it. But as someone said, you can get seconds direct from Lee for under $10, I think I paid $4.50 for mine, with only a small cosmetic blemish on the cover.

Thanks, Scott.

Lee's tools are kind of like Ruger handguns. They may not be the most elegant, but they are plenty strong, and they work. Lee used his mind to make the engineering decisions that made sense, instead of catering to customers that thought "heavier is better".

I thought the decision to use manufacture's published data was brilliant, just like most of his engineering decisions.

Save all the time, expense, and liability that separate testing would require, give the customer good value for the money, so he doesn't have to track down all the little flimsy manufacture's leaflets, and sell it for a very reasonable price.

I loved the anecdotes. They were worth the price of the book as well. Lee is a true American success story that we should all be proud of.

I watched a guy blow a lot of primers while seating them with the hand kit so when I started out I went to an RCBS Junior press and accessories. I've never owned a Lee loading manual but fellow reloaders often tell me it's "just awful." I love their priming tools and have one each for large and small primers and I often buy their dies, especially for "non target quality" ammo. I really hate the way they mount their decapper/neck expander dies in a collet chuck which requires a pipe wrench and vise to adjust or remove.

I havent seen the book, nor do I need to although I think it might be interesting. For someone just begining in reloading this thread might be quite confusing but not to anyone whos been around the business for any amount of time.

Its Lee! The maker of the best damn $20.00 powder measure on the planet. (maybe the only one) And also the designer of the SCARIEST thing on the reloading scene as well IMO, the infamous Lee dipper. I cant hardly believe that little abortion hasnt put Lee out of business from people grenading their weapons. But still, some of his creations simply work, innovative is a good description and yes I use some of them, I expect the book is just like anything else with the Lee name on it, take whats usefull and forget the rest.

By the way, what institution that has ever produced a reloading manual did NOT talk up THEIR products? I do agree though that data which pertains to specific bullets is a good thing. Anything else begins to enter the "Lee scary" realm. Its no wonder his data leans toward the conservative side.

As with all manufacturers, some of their products are good, some aren't. It's not like RCBS hasn't put some odd presses out there, they have. As to the manual, it doesn't cost much, it gives a broad base of information, and it's at least as accurate as everone elses' (more so then some, Barnes comes to mind). It is sort of generic in it's data, but as a resource I believe it is a good manual. This whole "Lee makes crap" argument strikes me as the gent who bought a lemon car from one manufacturer and from that day forth, everything that manufacturer made was crap. FWIW - Dan

For the beginner, the Lee book and reloading gear is a pretty inexpensive way to go. If he decides it is too much trouble, he can put it in a box(or garage sale) and it hasn't cost him an arm and a leg.Thirty five years ago I loaded 12 guage at night while watching TV with one of his little $9.95 hand loaders and , along with a old Riverside SXS, killed as many dove as some of my friends with their fancy Sportsman 58's and store bought ammo. I am sure Lee "borrowed" load data, but he borrowed for just about all the major companies.And , although with a few exceptions, his gear works well.

I review Lee's book as much as I review any body elses book. And I have just about everybody's book. IMHO I think it's a worthy addition to anything else you might already have. I've used it to develop loads and for the price definetly worth it as you can find it for anywhere between $8.00 to $11.00.

Best of luck...Cag

I have over 30 load books.

The best is Sierra.

The worst are "Speer 12" and "Speer 13".

"Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee is at least mediocre. It is just the powder manufacture's data copied.

The last time I looked, the book was available for $6 as a factory second.

http://www.leeprecision.com/