Sighted in some rifles today with friends for Wis whitetail season. One friend just got a new tikka 270wssm (yes we checked the recall and he wasn't affected). Anyhow I pronounce with all my wisdom that factory ammo is always 100 fps slow of what the box says. He starts shooting his factory Win 150 ball silvertips. Chrono gives a 3 shot avg of 3099fps. We pick up the box and it says it should be doing 3100 fps. HMMM. His friend picks up his 30-06. 22" barrelled Win bolt action. He's got federal premium loaded with 165 sierra boattails. He averages 2805 fps for 3 shots. We look at his box and it says it will do 2800 fps. All ammo had very little spread--as good as I could do with reloads. Both guns shot excellent only a slight bit of horizontal stringing--no vertical at all. (Probably the once a year shooting of ammo)
WOW--this manufactured ammo is getting better!! These guys certainly aren't missing a thing by not being reloaders. (Except a relaxing hobby I guess!!)) And they certainly are getting velocity that we reloaders seem to have to push to max loads or slightly above to match.

Yes factory stuff started getting better right after people like you and me could afford chronys. The factorys could no longer lie. They had to start living up to their claims.

Hey Kraky, Thanks for the info. That certainly does speak well for the factory loads. Also agree with you about the "horizontal dispersion". Nice to see the factories doing so well, cause it sure has not always been that way.

Too funny,
I did exactly the same thing with 300 wsm when a friend bought one in 2000 ... with 20fps of claimed

jeffe

Interesting results- Certainly factory can be good.
With my reloads and with light weight barrels I need to
try different proj/powder/weights of both etc. to get the
best groups. Makes it hard for the factory stuff you'd
think.
Another observation I've made shooting factory ammo is
that the primers are always well and truely flattned,
compared to my reloads, even when I'm over the powder
manufactures rec.max.
The thing is the factory can do (probably) a stiff yet
safe load where as the reloading manuals don't show
the top charges possible because they know what some of
us are like. So when someone says they are loading over
maximum (listed in a book), well maybe they are not.
Sometimes "maximum" is what your prepared to put up with.
ie. low case life, less safety margin etc.etc.
All within reason of course.
I may be loosing my facilities, but I still have all my
extremidies. Touch wood.
John L.

Got some onteresting results with my 404 Jefferies. 410gn paper patched bullet with 80gn 4350 was giving readings of 68fps. Next shot 141fps, and the next 92?
Seems the thing was reading the paper patch which was discarding just as it went through the screens!

JAL: Factory loads typically exhibit "flatter" appearing primers not because they are loaded to greater pressure, but because a factory load generally has more headspace in the chamber than handloaded ammunition. This greater headspace allows the cartridge to move slightly forward in the chamber upon ignition, then the building pressures, which have backed the primer slightly out of its pocket push the case rearward and "reseat" the primer; however the primer has already flattened slightly against the bolt face, therefore when it is reseated it fills virtually all of the primer pocket and its radius. This may give it the apperance of a primer which has flattened due to excessive pressure, but in truth, primer "flatness" usually has more to do with headspace than with pressure.

For an example, look at the primers from spent .30-30 rounds fired in a Winchester 94. These rifles usually have generous headspace as well as "springy" actions. The (relatively) low-pressure .30-30's will have primers that are not only "flattened", but sometimes spread outside of the primer pocket radius.

On the other hand, I have had loads that fit the chambers very tightly that were hot enough that the primer pockets became excessively loose after only a couple of firings. These loads, however did not show any notable "flattening" of the primers.

Beware of attempting to interpret pressures by "reading" primers.

Thanks Stonecreek.
I did know that primers are about the most unreliable way
to measure pressure, but didn't realise that fact about
the factory loads.
Also the primer hardness differences doesn't help either.
However, in working up to some heavy 223 Rem loads in
a range rifle, (80gr.proj. to 900 yards,) and other loads
also, I can USUALLY see a progression of flatness right
up to where there is no primer indent left, cept for the
cratering. NOT that I get that hot much, and certainly
not for long. As you mentioned the primer pockets get loose
in only a few loads. And it can't be doing much good to
anything else either.
The other extreme to what you were saying about headspace
and primers- I was amused one day to see a friend's light
loads ejected with the primer about 1/4 way out having not
been reseated by pressure.
Thanks again for the clues.
John L.