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| One of Us |
First of all. I am new to the site and to reloading! I feel comfortable reloading my ammo but have a few questions on primers and powders. I have 2 reloading manuals (Hornady Handbook 3rd Edition) and one published by Loadbooks, Usa? I am loading laser-cut lswc 240g .431 bullets and using magnum primers (350) i believe. i am also using in powders (w 231)& (hodgdon titgroup) and i have some Bullseye. of course i am not mixing powders  My .44 magnum is a Taurus 6 1/2" barrel revolver. My main ? is, is there any reason to think that i need to reduce the powder charge when going from regular primers to these magnum primers or vice/versa ? I have not yet and probably will NOT use maximum grains for safety reasons and the fact that i am new to this scene. I have shot some loads already using standard large pistol primers (cci's) started off using the titegroup powder at 6, 6.5,7,7.5 and progressed to 9.5 grains. Had some interesting results at 25 yards. The 6.grains and 7.grains of titegroup gave me shot groups touching each other at 25 yards using sandbag support neeling position. All the others loads were within 2" of each other save for the 9.5 which were around 3 in groups (very strange i thought)?? Anywho, Has anyone tried these powders in a .44 mag and what would be the difference in the primers? Thanks for any replies and any suggestions you might have.. p.s. i am crimping as well. Not sure how to determine how much crimping is needed, any advice on that as well would sure make me feel better! | ||
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For slow burning powders to burn properly you need a good crimp and a tight grip on the bullet .Over crimping can effect accuracy.If the grip on the bullet isn't tight enough you have to use a smaller expander. | |||
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thanks for the reply and the info. it is greatly appreciated. Do you have any thoughts about the primers? Will they cause me to to injure my weapon or worse(someone else)? | |||
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The three powders you list are all very fast burning powders that ignite easily so magnum primers are not needed. Not only are they not needed, but they are not recommended. The fast burning powders are great for reduced/plinking loads where their lower charge weights save you money. But, fast burning powders reach the top of their pressure curve very rapidly so using magnum primers with them or trying to reach top velocity heavy loads with them is not a smart move. For 44 Mag w/ 240 gr. bullets, my suggestions to you based on many years of loading the 44 and heavy 45 Colt are as follows: 1. Use standard primers (ex: CCI 300) for all loads with fast burning powders in the Bullseye, Titegroup, W231 etc range for plinking loads. You will have the best accuracy and safe loads if you stay below 1000 fps with these powders. 950 and under is even better. A light to medium crimp is all that is required. 2. When you want to take a step up in power/speed go to a midrange burning powder such as Unique, Universal Clays, AA #5 etc range. These can safely cover the 800-1100 fps speed range. Here again you should stay with a standard primer and a light to medium crimp 3. When you are ready to go for full power/heavy loads you should ONLY use a slow burning speed pistol powder such as 2400, 4227, W296, H110, Lil'Gun, or N110. With 2400 stay with standard primers. With 4227, W296, H110 and the others use a magnum primer and a heavy crimp. Again, all of this is for 240 gr. bullets. If you go up to 300 gr. or down to 200 gr. the powders change to some degree. With the laser-cast bullets you are using, I would be willing to bet you will have to limit them to 1100 fps or slower. Probably 1000 fps or slower in reality. I know they hype them as being hard cast, but typical machine cast bevel-base bullets like this can't generally be driven very fast without leading or a great drop in accuracy. If you want to go faster than 1000 fps with a cast bullet, you need to either cast your own or buy from a top-quality supplier like Cast Performance or Beartooth Bullets. Let me know if you have other questions and I'll try to help you get off to a good start with your 44. Later, Mark in GA | |||
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The only time I worry about changing primers is if my existing load is already pushing max. If you stay well under, changing primer types or brands will have little effect on your pressures. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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I think it's the A-Square manual that has a good write up on the effects of changing primers, etc on an established load. I loaned my copy to the neighbor, so I can't look right now - but I recall it being a very good read. ============================== "I'd love to be the one to disappoint you when I don't fall down" --Fred Durst | |||
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A HUGE thanks to all of you whom have replied. So, i had already loaded some ammo with the CCI 350 magnum primers. I went out and shot a few rounds of it this afternoon after leaving my last reply on here. My results were alot less than i had hoped for. This is my result: I didnt have a chronograph or speed sensing thingy but i will this wkend for sure and will post some more. 1. Using the Titegroup powder: 6.0 grains with the CCI 350 magnum primers. I didnt notice any accuracy difference at 25 yards which is the distance i am shooting from till i get more familiar with this stuff. It put 5 holes over lapping each other (touching in other words). Anywhere above that and my max load being 8 grains, they were a little more sparatic( spread out)if you will, an inch or so and of course they were a little high on the target. 2. Using the bullseye powder at 5.5 grains, they were dead on!! But at 7 grains they seemed to be all over the place, couldnt get anywhere close to each other in a group within reason that is. 3. Using the W231 seemed to have less recoil than the other 2 but shot pretty well. Gonna have to play with that some more. I really am getting into this stuff and man it's a blast, Litterly.. hehe this site is great and thanks to all of you who contribute to helping folks like myself to get started and learn more and more. BTW how do check pressure? i notice you said something about reaching the C.U.P if that is what your referring to.. what do you use to check that? | |||
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Based on my experience with the .44 Mag I would say to Mark in Ga - good on ya..... 
"When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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I agree with what Mark has wrritten. I load and shoote a lot of .44mag, 45LC (loaded heavy) I've shot em at all powder charges and with all types of primers. But I've always had the best results with the slower powders like H110 and or Lil Gun or 2400. But I disagree on the need for lower velocity with the Laser Cast, I've shot a lot of those as well. I prefer both Cast Performance and Beartooth because I have found them to be more uniform in manufacture, but the LC's shot pretty well for me in excess of 1300fps. Just my two grains worth. | |||
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try 8.5 grains of unique for plinking with lead bulletts or 20.8 grains of aa#9 with a 240grain hollow point | |||
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Thanks for the advice. I am going to goto Sportsmans Warehouse on Friday and grab some H110 if they have it and some W296. I do have a question though about those powders, you said to use the magnum primer, but what about the lead bullets?, will they still be ok shooting these 2 powders you mentioned here? | |||
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Yes, plain base cast bullets work well with maximum loads of H110 or Win 296 in my Super Blackhawk. I've even used soft swaged Speer bullets with these loads at 1575 FPS with only mild leading. What'll really give you fits is trying to shoot bullets that are too small for the throats of your cylinder. Gas leaking past a too-small bullet will erode off molten lead from the surface, and coat your bore in something much like a flame-spraying process. The lead doesn't even have to be particularly hard if the diameter's big enough to fill the throat well. Sealing the gas behind the bullet is your main concern. .431" is a good bullet diameter for typical .44 Mag revolvers. It's a good idea to push a slightly oversized soft lead slug through the throats and measure their diameter. The barrel's groove diameter is of secondary concern. Fill up those chamber throats. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." | |||
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Ricochet, Thank you for that bit of info. I am using Laser-Cast .431 lswc in this Taurus Revolver. Weird thing you mentioned the lead issue though. I notice every time i am done shooting, i have tons of lead seems like in the cylender of this gun. Some, but not much in the barrel, More so in the cylender though it seems. I've been able so far to get it all out with Barnes CR-10 but sure seems i have alot of it in there to remove. I am not even shooting this thing at max loads, actually almost all loads are 6 grains of titegroup and it still does this. Any ideas? | |||
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I think a lot of leading problems are due to use of hard lube. My hypothesis is that the principal purpose of bullet lube is to seal gas behind the bullet, and the lube's got to be soft enough to flow out of the grooves under pressure to do it. When I dig a bullet out of a backstop and find the grooves full of lube, I figure that lube couldn't have done its job. "A cheerful heart is good medicine." | |||
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Of the loads that I have worked up for my Blackhawk .44 mag, my favorite hunting loads are 16 gr AA#9 with a 235 gr hard cast gas checked bullet and 21 gr H-110 with the same bullet. These are hard hitting and accurate. I like Unique and Blue Dot for reduced power loads. I use Winchester Mag pistol primers for the hunting loads and CCI LP primers for the reduced power loads. | |||
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