Is it needed after every time you fire that round. Does it effect accuracy versus just neck sizing ? Currently I full lenght everytime I reload. Am I just weakening the case faster by doing this? Thx for the in put.

cobia,

There are many variables that determine what's best. Some of them are the actual use of that loaded round. Is it for a serious hunt, match etc. Then there are tight chambers and loose ones both in terms of headspace and the other dimensions. Another is how solid is the action in terms of springing back. How hot the load is also affects what needs to be done.

A universal rule would be to FL every round and try each one of them thru the chamber making sure none are tight. Some of the best target shots FL size every round. In a match or hunt for that matter reliablity is first.

I no longer like the old fashioned neck sizing concept. For just neck sizing the Lee Collet dies are far better in every way. Some FL dies can be a very good fit for some chambers but the die must be set just right so as not to under or over size the headspace.

For seating I have found that the RCBS seating dies are very good for match and hunting ammo and some new Redding seating dies are also just as good. Others use straight line seating dies for benchrest.

The best FL die is the Redding "S" type bushing die.

Thanks,
I use RCBS dies and they seem like they perform well I am still pretty new to all this reloading. I full length size every case, measure , I individually weight and load each case. I dont have one of them fancy powder pouring things. I then seat the bullet to the reccomended oal and mearsure each individual round. I then chamber and make sure each round seats in the chamber. All for the love of the one important shot.

Cobia,



What hot core says is exactly right when it comes to OAL and variation in profile for the same part number from lot to lot. I bought two different boxes of 150 grain 270 cal hornady spitzers, and each box was from a different lot. The bullet profile was almost totally different for each box, and if you measured from the tip to base of the case to measure oal, one box of bullets was off the lands .06" while the other was right on.



If you are confused, don't worry. READ, a lot. Get a few basic reloading manuals like nosler and sierra (my two favorites, the latter being the superior in my opinion). Nosler's manual covers the steps to determining OAL very well. However, they say to stay off the lands .015 to .03". I wouldn't listen to this. All my rifles have liked from .01" off the lands to slightly into the lands. The best seating depth will vary from rifle to rifle so you can play with that variable, but do that after you have found a good bullet/powder charge combination. Start at the lands like hot core says or slightly back from the lands (1/4 to 1/2 turn of the seating plug clockwise). I have seen a huge difference in some rifles when adjusting seating depth. Buy a stoney point bullet comparator if you want to compare the OAL of bullets from different lots. Money well spent. Again, don't get frustrated if you don't understand everything just yet. Just read a bunch (from reliable sources) before blowing lots of money and throwing lots of lead down your tube. There are also manuals strictly on reloading for accuracy. Again, invaluable information that is going to save you time and money (even though there is the possibility of spending a little more money on extra equipment mentioned in the manuals, you will do things right the first time and will save you money in powder and bullets). I wish I would have heeded these words 12 years ago when I started loading.

I just KNEW when I saw the post that if Hot Core was on line that he would jump right in!!! Listen to what he says. He's got it nailed. While he and I partially disagree on the value and accuracy of partial full sizing versus neck sizing only, what he says is dead on!!

One thing to consider when trying to decide whether to full-length size or not is whether your rifle has a truly round chamber.



If you neck size-only brass which has been fired in an out-of-round (slightly oval) chamber, then chamber the resulting loaded round, the bullet may not be pointing toward the middle of the chamber & bore prior to ignition. Upon ignition, the bullet may be sitting there slightly "skewed" out of bore alignment and then may be slightly deformed as gas pressure forces it into the bore anyway. That, of course, can only degrade accuracy.



And, unless you "orient" the brass of each cartridge as it enters the chamber, the skew will vary in direction and degree with each round chambered. That will further slightly degrade accuracy.



At least with full-length sized cases, the loaded cartridges are more or less back to being round in shape, and tend to lie somewhat more consistently in the egg-shaped chamber just prior to firing. That doesn't eliminate all the problems of an out-of round chamber, but does mitigate them a bit.



AC

"AC" when you talk of out of round chambers, you make me want to buy one of those gismos that measure concentricity of a round.



My rule is to full length all new brass. Then after shooting, neck size any that I use in bolt or single shots and full length in auto loaders. Also using the Stony Point stuff, I have recorded how far to the lands and what shoots best.



I've even gone so far (probably silly) to index my rounds in the single shots (Ruger #1's) But i have been getting some good groups which may have more to do with practice than being anal with my reloading.



And one other thing, make sure your rounds will fit in the magazine. I have seen some that when loaded to the lands that would not fit. But you can always shot them as "single shots"

Gentlemen thx for the education.

I think I understand but will have to play with it and get it right. Hotcore, when you talk about measuring the die . When I set up the RCBS die for the data at hand it has never been changed is that correct or not. I do not adjust it everytime I load a round. One thing I have noticed about woodleigh's is that they maybe accurate from round to round on weight but not on length. thanks again.

Depending on what you want to be set up for. FL sizing with say RCBS dies with an expander ball even lubing the inside of the neck sometimes will strech the necks up. I think if someone want to fl size use the redding type s fl with a bushing. I use only new cases for my hunting rifles and for my other type shooting I only neck size either with wilson or neil jones dies and since neil's are shoulder bumping dies I don't need to fl size and on some of my other rifles I'll use a body die. I'm not a big fan of fl sizing as I think it hurts the accuray and with using a bushing you can set the right neck tension I use an inside neck reamer after about 5 firing. On say my 7mag to 30-378 I can get about 5/6 firing before I have to worry about setting the shoulder back and on my 30-338,300wsm and 300wby I normally get about 10 firings on some of my 22 cal i can get about 20 firing and on the 6mm about the same. I don't believe in working the brass any more than I have to. I had a 22-250AI and 6mmremAI done up this year and all my test etc I've never had to resize the brass yet plus I don't anneal brass. Only problem I ever run into was during some testing after about 6 firing with a hot load primer pockets got alittle big. Use to have that problem with the 6ppc on some of the orginal brass before laupa was heard of and Skip Otto use to make a bushing for the primer pockets and I still have some of that brass and won't tell you how many barrels that stuff has been used in. I still have 243 win brass from the late 60's and that rifle is on it's fouth barrel. Just my .03 worth

I reseat my bullet depth each time I load. I always back off the seater (it has micrometer tics) and reseat to my written specs per my calipers and the Stony Point bushing.

I also seat halfway, then rotate the case 180 degrees more or less and finish seating.

I load at the range.

Press #1 [Lee reloader]:
I de cap with a decapping die.

Press #2 [RCBS Rockchucker]:
I take the expander ball / decapping pin stem out of the sizing die.

I apply Imperial sizing wax to the outside of the case.

I full partial full length re size as far as I can without setting the shoulder back.

Press #3 [Lee reloader]:
I prime with a Lee Auto Prime II

I put the powder in the case with an RCBS uniflow powder meter.

Press #4 [RCBS Partner]:
I seat the bullet.
The seating depth is checked with a Sinclair bullet comparitor [large nut with holes in it] and dial calipers.


I write things on the target like, " 3-20-04 Ruger #1 .223, LC brass, CCI 400, 60 gr. SP moly bullet seated to 2.89" measured with Sinclair nut, 25 gr. IMR4895, 3309, 3260, 3229, 3284 fps, .7" 5 shot group at 100m"
When I get home I type up a range report email to a pen pal who scrutinizes me for good lab write up technique.

Here's a Link I made for using Stoney Point Products.

I tried to keep it simple.

Hi, Bill -



Yeh, you know I have thought and thought about that round concentricity gadget. I have one (Sinclair's product), but don't use it very often.



As I see it, it doesn't always tell you much, when it comes to out-of-round chambers. If the chamber is oversized, even if it is perfectly round, with a push-feed action, the cartridge tends to lie in the bottom of the chamber. It may also be pushed to one side of the bottom by a spring-loaded ejector. And, of course a minimum size cartridge (new, unfired) doesn't really fill the typical production chamber.



When the cartridge is fired, gas pressure does make it expand to fill the chamber. Does it expand equally in all directions? Not likely. One side, the bottom, is already against one chamber wall. So naturally, the tendency is to expand the cartridge case in the direction of least resistance...toward the top of the oversized chamber.



The brass will then come out of the chamber no longer round, even if it was perfectly round when it went in, and even though it has been fired in a perfectly round chamber. If then twirled in a concentricity gauge, it will of course show that it is now not round, too.



So one might be led to believe the chamber is out of round when, in fact, it isn't.



The only way I am really aware of to tell if a chamber is round is, immediately after cutting it and before removing the barrel from its centered position in the lathe, to use a dial indicator and check the chamber's surface for deviations in distance from bore-center.



This can also be done with just about any barrel which can be put in the headstock or between centers and centered up on a "range-rod".



For most gun users this degree of concern is probably unnecessry, unhandy information to acquire. It may be impossible info to get if their barrel is not easily removed from their action and/or their barrel has sights on it, so that the whole barreled action won't fit in the headstock or between centers.



Still, there are some (mostly factory or shade-tree gunsmithed) chambers which are so out of round that they can be detected without all this rigmarole. For those, full length sizing every time the brass is loaded is probably a worth-while effort.



My opinion, anyway.



Best wishes,



AC