I am trying to load some rounds for the 10.75x68 and one of the powders recommended was I4198. I have an old can of it and when I opened it some brown dust came out of the can. When I used my lyman 1200 powder measure the powder left a fine rust colored dust on all surfaces of the inner plastic. The canister has no strong smell and I wonder if it is just some rust from inside the metal IMR can that is causing the discoloration?? Are these loads safe to shoot? These powder cans are kept safe inside a climate controlled environment. This is not a powder I have used a lot and therefore have little insight into its characteristics???? I need some help on this one.

Shitcan it. It's not worth the risk.....DJ

Instead of junking it, sounds to me that it just got a little rust off of the oxidation of the metal can it came in.

If you are that concerned about it, load some ammo at lower capacity. IMR 4198 in a straight cartridge like the one your are describing, I can't see a problem.

I would be more concerned in a bottle necked cartridge potentially with a much smaller opening.

however a cartridge with a 10mm opening, is like a small cannon in shape. I am sure it runs at pretty low pressure even when filled with powder like 4198.

If it is just a one pound can, then it is replacable for $18.00 or so, so make your own decisions. If you lived near me, I'd say I'd get rid of it for you and then take it home and use it. I don't think a 444 would really care much.

cheers
seafire

Do what I do, and save it for July 4th.

Now if you are trapped in your house surrounded by lions in Oklahoma right now, then I suppose you'd probably be able to kill them all and not even worry about harming your gun, but otherwise as DJ said it's not worth it......

P.S. Ever manage to get all of your knives sharpened?

Heck yes! DJ was my guru for knife sharpening. We worked me to death with the water stones and then he found this marvilous machine called a Tormek water sharpener. After he had his a bit over a year and showed me how to do it, I bought my own. DJ is still the GURU of sharpening with me as an understudy and not that far behind. I think I am less picky about the edge than he is and quit before he would.

My grandfather had the same thing happen to him with some IMR powder many years ago. There was no rust, but the powder had a reddish dust in the can. It is probably a sign of deterioration. Even though the powder did not smell rancid, the closest thing we could figure was that something in the powder reacted, over a period of 7-10 years, to moisture during storage. For the price of a pound of powder, you might as well scrap it.

Fortunately, I shoot just enough to rotate my stock!!!

lb404,
I have some IMR-4198 that's just as you describe, which I am in the process of using up with cast bullet loads in an '06. I've been using it for about a year now, with no ill effects.

I've seen this in stored metal cannisters with IMR 4831 and IMR 4350. I don't know what it is, but the powder works. I'd work up to your load from well below maximum.

Years ago I bought a brand new can of IMR4198 and it had the red rust smoky fumes also. And a quite different odor. But the inside of the can was bright and shiny. Since I couldn't locate the cash register receipt and didn't trust it's quality, I used it to fertilize my front lawn. I never encountered smokeless powder like it before or since. From all I've ever read, those are the classic signs of deteriorating gunpowder.

When you find red or brown residue in powder, the powder has gone bad....It will also smell different...

Don't use it, its turned and can be very unstable....

That is a handloading basic...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
When you find red or brown residue in powder, the powder has gone bad....It will also smell different...

Don't use it, its turned and can be very unstable....

That is a handloading basic...

Well Ray:

I guess I need to go to the Ray Atkinson, Basic Reloading class 101.

If powder goes " bad" what exactly do you mean by going bad? It has to have a chemical breakdown to experience different ignitions, doesn't It?

Cheers
seafire

Any signs of powder deteriorating means one thing, it is going to speed up.So it won't
act like original....that is why some folks use it on light loads.Ed.

Thanks guys.

IMPORTANT WARNING!!!

I called a IMR/Hodgdon ballistic engineer. He said, "THE RUST-COLORED STUFF INDICATES THE POWDER IS GOING BAD [DETERIORATING]. IT WILL EVENTUALLY SELF IGNITE. Get rid of it ASAP!" I don't need a fire or explosion, I'm getting rid of it immediately!

Also, he said get rid of any ammo loaded with it, because the acid deterioration products will fuse the bullet to the case causing chamber obstruction. TAKE DOWN YOUR AMMO LOADED WITH IT!

HE SAID THEY EXPECT POWDER TO STORE 5 YEARS, ANYTHING BEYOND THAT IS GRAVEY. CHECK YOUR OLD POWDERS.

quote:

HE SAID THEY EXPECT POWDER TO STORE 5 YEARS, ANYTHING BEYOND THAT IS GRAVEY. CHECK YOUR OLD POWDERS.

Wow. You wont believe how old some of my powders are. One from Hodgen , a square cardboard can of 4831.

AIU, thanks for the tip, I had already done that very thing. Easier to pull bullets than rifle pieces out of your face.