Howdy all, well we went for an antelope safari on Saturday. Four tags to fill, my 13 year old niece, her parents, and Myself. My Sister shot a freakish buck at about 250 yds with a 150 gr. out of the 30-06, next was my niece with the 788 I downsized for her. She nicked the bottom of the buck's ear which caused profuse bleeding on one side of it's face, looked horrible, It wasn't. She and her father stalked him for about an hour until they got about 200 yds away. Lying prone, she center punched him a little high and back in the chest. The buck ran about 50 yds and then fighting to stand, fell and struggled for about 10 minutes. My niece kept asking if she should shoot it again, but I said no, that she had hit him hard and he would die shortly. Dad helped by cutting it's throat. I was amazed at how little damage the 85 grain XBT bullet did. It went between the last two ribs and broke one on it's way out. Both lungs were perforated and swollen around the holes, but very little bleeding into the chest cavity. In fact they were still full of air! I think that bullet failed to open and acted like a FMJ. It might need something a little more dense, like a shoulder, to open up.
Her dad dropped one with an 85 gr. Ballistic tip out of the .25-06 after a great stalk that we watched from afar. The buck reared up and back pedaled about 15 feet before spinning and doing the 20 yard death run. I hit mine in the neck with a 120 grain Ballistic tip out of my 7mm Rem Mag Sako. That antelope hit the ground so hard it looked like a hollywood stunt with a jerk wire.
Great day for hunting antelope in central Wyoming.

GoWyo,

I have worked with the 85 Barns in my 243 Win. I got it shooting ok but havn't taken it hunting yet so I don't know its performanc on smaller game.

But, two weeks ago my father shot one of our smallish CA deer with his 7mm Rem Mag and 160gr FailSafes that I load for him. He ended up shooting the buck twice, once in the neck and once between the ribs. Neither bullet hit bone and there was very limited damage, but it did kill the buck. Last year he shot a buck with the same load through the shoulders. The offside shoulder was a total loss. So it seems on lighter animals, their performance is determined on what you hit.

But, no complaints, both deer were very dead.

CA Mike

Even a FMJ should deflate a lung when hit properly. I hit a moose that far back, once, and he went for a little walk, too. I think that lung shots that far back may not necessarily collapse the lungs. JMO, Dutch.

Howdy guys, I would agree that the larger vessels are near the bronchi of the lungs, would definitely help to hit in that area with regards to filling the lungs with blood. I think that with the bullet placement as it was, any make of bullet would have sufficed. Then again, a large buck antelope will only dress out at 85-100 pounds.

Interesting note on mine, he was one scarred up, bruised and battered little scrapper. Numerous tears in the hide, ahhh! Love is in the air! Several years ago, I watched two bucks fight for over 15 minutes! Vicious battle with slashing hooves and horns, I saw the dust cloud from a mile away, thought it was a dust devil at first, so they had to have been at it a long time before I even drove up.

I keep warning people that using "premium", deep-penetrating bullets (Nosler Partitions excepted) is asking for trouble with light game. I contend that many more deer and antelope are lost each year due to poor expansion than to "overexpansion".

No, I don't recommend using a .25 caliber 100 grain ballistic tip on elk, but it is just as inappropriate to use a 300 grain Woodleigh on pronghorns.

I would echo stonecreeks sentiments. A Barnes X in a 6mm cal is pretty much an oxymoron. There is nothing that caliber is capable of taking that is tough enough to require X class penetration and so the result is much like a FMJ bullet effect. Not much! A good sp bullet would have likley saved that animal a lot of suffering and yourself a little change.

Super dooper macho penetration syndrome at its finest.

Don't know if I'm the best judge here, only got to hunt antelope once...guys these are not large animals, but have shot my fair share and then some of mule deer. For me magnums are not needed, premium bullets...got to be kidding. This where Speer, Sierra, Hornadys are at their best. Forget all the macho BS. Game under 400 lbs. and probally more don't need a super bullet. What pronghorns, and deer need is responsable hunters that don't feel the need to shoot at 400+ yards with their lastest super magnums. Put the hunt back into hunting. Guess the older you get the chase is better than the get. FWIW

I guess my question is... if your niece wanted to shoot again, and was ready to, why did you tell her no & let it go on for 10 minutes of "struggling"? That's not a "short" time. Then you finished it by cutting it's throat? Why not just have her take one more shot, early in the process? Much quicker & more humane.

Interesting....

Every time that I get the "itch" to try out X bullets, I hear something like this. Some opinions notwithstanding, the use of an X bullet on deer sized game seems to be a bad idea. There are just too many stories about them "penciling" to warrant taking a chance on them.

JimF

Hi Folks,
I have experienced this FMJ effect with the 90 grain Barnes XBT in a .257 Roberts.
I hit a medium sized whitetail doe square in the lungs at about 130 yds. She ran over 600 yds before expiring. There was only a small spec of blood and a caliber sized "drill bit" exit hole.

X bullets are just too much of a good thing on deer/antelope sized game.
Good Shooting,
HBB

Two years ago I shot 4 does with the 90 gr. x-bullet for the freezer. I had mixed results. All were broadside shots ranging from 80 to just over 200 yds. 3 of the 4 ran a good ways 50-75 yds. There was little blood to trail and while there was a hole going in and coming out I was not impressed with the damage to the lungs. But there was little to no blood shot meat. I did collect all of them but I will stay with 100 gr sierras and 90gr or 105gr speers. Just my limited experience.

GoWyo, If you're looking for a nasty little game getter bullet in the 6mm, try the Sierra 85 grain HPBT. It's a "GAMEKING" bullet, not a varmint bullet. Since it does such a good job on dropping whitetails in their tracks here on the east coast, I see no reason why it shouldn't drop a pronghorn. BEN243

Howdy all, well cold bore, the reason I told her not to shoot it again is that we eat what we shoot (coyotes and vermin excluded) and the way it was moving I didn't want her to exacerbate the situation and ruin a ham or backstrap. It was no different than an archery shot. I may have exaggerated on the length of struggle. Still.

Hey Wstrnhntr, the main reason I've been using the premiums, Barnes and Speer Grand slams, is that she is going to use this rifle on a cow elk. There, chew on that one fellas. Ben, I know about those sierras, I've used them in my .243 Steyr. My rifle shoots 95 gr. Ballistic tips better however.

The next time anyone tells me that premium bullets dont fail Im just going to refer them to this thread.

GoWyo,
Ive heard of people taking Elk with a 25-06 on numerous occasions but I wouldnt risk it myself, thats just my personal opinion. There are too many other calibers known to be more suitable for the task.

I too eat what I shoot but if an animal is dying slowly (;see suffering) Ill put an end to it, fast! Ive been meaning to get a sidearm with just that purpose in mind. They are better suited for it than a rifle.

Having to use a little tenderizer is not unconsiable too me, being without compassion is. I hope you will give the many coinciding opinions here some reflection.

West, I'm not one without compassion, and as I consider myself an ethical hunter, I strive to put an animal down immediately. There are occasions that an animal will die slower than our emotions care to endure. My Bro-in-law did dispatch the animal with no damage to any meat as an errant shot would have done. The fact of the matter is when you pull the trigger, something may die, quickly or slowly, or in a worse case scenario- straggle off to die slowly somewhere. This animal was slightly wounded, ethically stalked and followed (This aspect seems to be of no consequence to you.) until a killing shot was administered. (albeit not with a lightning rod). The meaning of the original thread was a testimonial to others to be aware, not to get berated by one such as yourself. As for the choice of calibers for elk I will concede that this may be on the light side but with proper placement, and a sooper dooper macho penetrator- it has and will work. BTW, thanks for your attention to my finances.

If you've read many of my posts I am a barnes proponent. This one makes me sad. If you go over to the long range hunting forum they are getting picture perfect expansion out of the new 168 xlc down to 1800 fps. I think I'm slowly getting sold on the idea that "on game" performance is what you have to judge by. Apparently the "non premiums" rule for avg size deer and smaller. OR, perhaps nosler had it best by offering a bullet that is really half and half.
I'ts non premium up front but premium for the last 60%. If your gun likes the partition it has to be one of the most universal bullets you can choose. However, on big game I will continue to believe in the barnes idea as I've seen it work excellent every time and many times. Kind of a "oxymoron" isn't it.

I've tried on several occasions to give Barnes bullets an honest shot (pardon the pun), but I have never been impressed with their accuracy or performance. And what finally turned me away from them was an incident with an 85 grain X bullet used in a .250 Savage. I had worked up a decent load in a 14.875" XP, and it clocked right at 2900 fps. Early testing showed that it was expanding fine. But my next batch of these bullets came from a different lot #. The accuracy remained the same, but the on-game performance was dismal, to say the least. I contacted Barnes and even sent them the rest of the bullets that I had not yet loaded up. Months & months passed, and when I called again to query, I was told the bullets could not be found and that the employee who handled my situation was no longer there. So I pulled more of the same bullets and sent them another batch -- with a promise that they'd check 'em out and get back to me ASAP. A number of years have now passed, and Barnes never "got back to me." I eventually used some of the remaining 85 grain X bullets for fireforming loads & threw the rest out. Now & then, I pick up a box or two when they are being closed out or on the auctions for a low price. I don't load them but use them instead to trade for bullets that I know and trust. And more than anything, it was the Barnes customer service -- rather, the lack thereof -- that turned me away from the X bullet, not necessarily that one instance of poor performance.

GoWyo-

Your defense is a little weak. A good archery shot kills in seconds. If you were able to walk up & cut it's throat, you could've closed the distance & made an accurate finishing shot. To extend an animals suffering by just watching it struggle, so that you might get a few more pounds of meat, to me is unthinkable.

You want to pat yourself on the back for going after it again after shooting it through the ear, and tell us that makes you an ethical hunter, after what you did next? I don't think so.

Bore, get your spectacles and read a little more closely, then put on your thinking cap. I'm done here.

GoWyo: I love Barnes X bullets on larger game, but I will not use them for deer sized or smaller. My favorite bullets for deer sized game are Hornady Interlocks.

I may be out of line here, not having been witness to the situation. But..... She hits the antelope initially in the EAR!!! Then hits it too far back, wounding it, you then allow it to suffer for ten minutes before cutting its throat.

I have shot my fair share of game and absolutely pride myself on delivering a swift and sure end to any game animal I shoot. I eat my game as well, but a few things really irk me here.

Should this kid be out shooting at game animals if her marksmanship is this poor??

Allowing an animal to suffer for ten minutes is INHUMANE, you should be ashamed of yourself. Especially with a young hunter as a witness.

Sorry to get on the soapbox here but the whole scenario got to me.

FN in MT

I know this type of comment usually draws fire, but a .243 is a great varmint round, not a big game round. Trying to make it one by using "super premiums" appears to only make it worse. A bit bigger, softer bullet would allow for a bigger hole, thus greater blood loss, cleaner kill. I keep hearing too many bad stories about big game & the .243. There you go guys, fire away?

Frank N. well said.

While I am certainly not a Barnes X fan, had too many failures myself except on big stuff like Buffalo where they seem to work quit well....However I have also used the old Barnes X 75 gr. bullet in my 6x45 (6mm/223) and it kills deer and antelope real well with good tissue destruction.....that bullet may have been discontinued...The 80 gr. Speer also works well in the 6x45 at about 2800 FPS..

Ray, the 62 grain GS HV also does well on antelope at those speeds. It can be done, but bullet placement gets more important, the closer you creep to that minimum line! Fortunately, those rounds, and the 6PPC and 6BR are easy to tune and shoot well.

Yes, the 75 "x" is discontinued. I stockpiled a bunch..... but the 62 GS HV is a preferred substitute, anyway. Got some of those stashed, too. FWIW, Dutch.

I agree with the follow -up shot if the animal isn't on its side and just twitching a leg it gets another! I made that mistake once -lost the deer too! From that day forward a follow up shot!
I just hope your duaghter didn't loose her ambission to hunt over this.