Hi All,

Posted a week ago about needing some help as I'm new to rifle reloading. Want to thank mho for his responce and the links, it was very helpful as to the OAL question I had, especialy for the 7.5 swiss. Unfortunatly I should have posted the rifles I'm reloading for with the calibers. I'm all set on the 7.5 swiss for now and have moved to the .308 win.

I am loading 64gr. of IMR 4350 with hornaday 150 gr fmj bullets in remington and IMI cases trimed to 2.015 with winchester lr primers and an oal of 2.730. I am shoting it out of an FAL rifle. Does this seem to meet the correct safe minimum? The other rifle I'm going to load for is my M1 garand. Is it correct I'm supposed to full length size the casses for and crimp the bullets for these semi auto rifles?

I understand that a heavier/longer bullet can be more accurate and give less freebore but I belive 150gr.fmj is what the FAL and garand are designed for, is that correct?

Everything I have read about reloading for rifles has SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF ME!! Now I'm way over causious and want to tripple check everything. This is how I was when I started loading for my .357 pistol before I got used to it.

I did try 6 of these .308 loads out of the FAL today, with the rifle in a cradle and me behind a tree like a weinie pulling on a string to the trigger. It seemed ok to me, nothing blew up, but I'm new to this. The primers did flaten out some but didn't flaten all the way to the case, is that correct? Just want to double check all this before I put my head near it . Please excuse my spelling .Thanks for any help/advice,NealB.

quote:

I am loading 64gr. of IMR 4350 with hornaday 150 gr fmj bullets in remington and IMI cases trimed to 2.015 with winchester lr primers and an oal of 2.730.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! DANGER!!! DANGER!!!

Do you have a Hornady manual? If so, you would know:

1) IMR 4350 is not a powder Hornady lists for the .308 Win in either the standard or service rifle loads for this cartridge.

2) The largest safe load listed is 47.2 gr of RL-15. You have almost 17 grains more powder.

3) Max case length is 2.015"; trim to length is 2.005".

Where did you get your data? It is highly suspect.

Primers flattening is always cause for pause. Not always a sign of a problem but something that should cause you to review things---as you have done.

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Everything I have read about reloading for rifles has SCARED THE CRAP OUT OF ME!! Now I'm way over causious and want to tripple check everything.

You should be cautious, but if you are using reliable source material, have learned and studied about what you are suppose to be doing, you should have more confidence in what you are doing.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by Neal B.:
Hi All,


I am loading 64gr.MISSPRINT???? of IMR 4350 with hornaday 150 gr fmj bullets in remington and IMI cases trimed to 2.015 with winchester lr primers and an oal of 2.730. .

DANGER?????? I don't think so! More like impossible. Kinda like putting 3# of shit into a 2# bag. Please excuse my vulgarity; it just seemed appropriate. roger

You must have mis-typed that load! You cannot stuff 64 grains of IMR4350 in the 308 case!


IMR4350 is not recommended for the 308 by Hodgon (who packages the IMR powders).


For your Garand (Isn't it a 30.06?) the Max load for the 30.06 is only 54 grains of IMR4350.
64 grains of IMR 4350 will blow up a Garand

Roger, good catch on the powder quantity. You're likely correct about that.

But I would still be concerned that he's using a powder not recommended by Hornady or Hodgdon, he's trimming to the wrong case length, he's mixing brass types without an indication that the load was worked up seperately in the two different brass types, he's getting some flattening of the primers, and he's so lacking in confidence that he's firing the loads by remote control.

IMO, this all adds up to a need to fall back and reassess what is being done.

LWD

Thanks for the help guys,

Yes, I obviously typed 64 insted of 46 by accident. Please don't shot me!!

Both my the Lee and a Lyman book show .308 Win. loaded with Imr4350 and a 150gr. jacketed bullet. The Lyman book shows a starting gr. of 46.0 and a max of 51.6 and labels the 51.6 as a compressed powder load. The Lee book shows starting gr. at 46.0 and max gr. as the same 46.0 and doesn't list a compressed powder load. Why both books list a different max. I don't know, I'm just trying for the minimum which they both list as 46.0. I usually shot surplus millitary ammo out of millitary arms with open sights, so if I can get resonable results at a minimum charge I'll be happy.

Thanks for catching me on the trim lenght LWD, I did trim to 2.015. Good thing is more can be taken off, and max. is still in the safe zone. Thats why I'm checking my load here.

I'm trying both the IMI and Rem. brass to see which seems to work better, I hear the Rem. brass gets lose primer pockets fast and if its gonna be an issue I won't use them. I also have more than one .308 rifle, If one likes a load with one type of brass better I'll use it.

Both my books also list IMR4350 in .3006 with a 150gr. jacketed bullet, but I didn't bring up the garand for the purpose of loads for it, just for the need to or not of crimping and full lenght sizeing for these 2 semi auto rifles. I probrably worded it confusingly. Loads for the .3006 are another day

I can't figure out how to post a picture of the 6 brass I fired. To me the primers are stightly flater than when I put them in but are no worse than any of the factory loaded once fired I have on hand. If I can figure it out I'll post it, I was hopeing for an educated opinion.

BTW, I fire brand new guns I get with factory ammo from "remote control" the first time... It's a long story.

Thanks again for your time and replies.

I hope I didn't offend you. I didn't mean to, and I have been justly chastised by my fellow ARers.

You will find a divergence of opinion on whether load data is a guide or a recipe. I'm in the recipe camp while many others are in the guide camp. I will tend to use data as a guide only when cartridge and bullet specific data is not available. However, others will take data as a guide and start with it many ways.

The danger of the different cases is that the internal volumes are different leading to very different pressures. But since you appear to be at the very bottom of the powder charge, that's not a concern as long as you pay attention.

Send me the pictures if you want (leighwdavis AT gmail DOT com), and I will post them for you. photobucket.com works great though.

LWD

No offence taken at all LWD, thank you for your help, I sent you an email.

Here's a picture of the cases Neal is concerned about. I'm not inclined to think the primers look particularly cratered, but what's the consensus?

The primers look perfectly normal. The third one on the left may even have gotten too little pressure.

There appears to be no sign of high or excessive pressure. From what is seen in the photo you are not even close to being in any DANGER. If you want to see what close to danger looks like send a PM to tnekkcc.

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and I have been justly chastised by my fellow ARers

quote:

DANGER

LWD

Thats Great!!! Looks like I'm off and running. Thank you all very much for your help and input. I can't thank you enough LWD, thanks for posting the picture, catching me on the trim lenght and all your help. I think I'm ready to shoulder this rifle and see what it can do

quote:

Originally posted by LWD:

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and I have been justly chastised by my fellow ARers

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DANGER

LWD

LWD! I'm really not ragging on you. Ain't my thing. roger

Sorry if I misinterpreted the emphasis. You are too well regarded around here for much of that anyway.

Plus, I feel kinda silly for not noticing that 64 grains of IMR4350 won't fit in a .308 case! There were so many other potential issues that the most obvious blew right by me.

Regards,

LWD

quote:

Yes, I obviously typed 64 insted of 46 by accident. Please don't shot me!!

LWD,
Even typos can get some folks hurt if they don't verify what they read. Just develop good work habits because you don't get with very many mistakes with the real thing.
Your primers look fine.