Hi guys!! Question!!! What do you think would be better? A Hornady 140 XTP coming out of a lever action 24" barrel @ 1800 fps or a Sierra 158 JSP @ 1400fps. The ranges would not exceed 100 yds. Any thoughts or experience would be greatly appreciated.
Aloha, Mark [in Or]

I have had good luck back home with 16 gr of Win 296 under a 170 gr Speer GDSP at about 1750 fps from my little single shot with a 22 inch barrel. This bullet cuts like a semi wadcutter but mushrooms real good for a jacketed bullet. I have never recovered a bullet after shooting a deer with it, they were all pass through's even through both shoulders at about 87 yds. The bullet has a meplat(?) of about .280 so there is plenty of frontal area. But hey that wasn't your question was it.
In your 2 loads asked about I would go with the 140 gr XTP.

Steve E........

Why so anemic, and why so light?

How about a 180 grainer at 1700 fps?

Personally I'd prefer the heavier bullet, and would be even more comfortable with a 180. The Remington 180 hollow point softnose (the scallop jacketed job they sell as a bulk component) works fine on whitetail @ 1500 fps, and it's inexpensive to boot.

I use a 158 out of a handgun at 1222 FPS, but limit the range to 75 yards.

Thanks a lot guys. This isn`t for me but for a close friend. The rifle is a Rossi with a 24" barrel. According to my Accu-load thingy about the most I can hope for is about 1720 with Win 296/140 Hornady bullet and 1600 with 2400 and the Sierra 158. This program has been awfully close on some of my experiments like the 6.5 SAUM a few years ago. What they said I would get and what I got in "real-life" loads was only 17 fps apart so I figure this program is pretty close. However it still cannot beat the tried and true evaluations of people like yourselves who have actually shot the bullets. The guy who owns the rifle is a hell of a shot so hitting the prospective target [deer] isn`t the problem. He just wants to use the bullet that will kill clean/ quick and not make him walk halfway across the county to get the animal. Thanks again for the input and if you can elaborate on the bullets and how they killed it would be appreciated.
Aloha, Mark

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He just wants to use the bullet that will kill clean/ quick and not make him walk halfway across the county to get the animal.

Suggest to him to use a rifle with a higher energy level and stop trying to push it to a bare bones minimum. Think about it for a second. this is 2006 not 1876. Some times it is hard not being obvious. roger

put a 3/8" steel dowel rod in the lathe and turn it so it fits the muzzle of the .357 barrel. Sharpen it to a point and fit it to the end of the barrel and ram the deer like a spear. This is more effective than actually shooting bullets at them.

Remember...the harder you can ram the deer or throw the rifle like a spear the more energy you have and the deeper penetration you will achieve.

As with using bullets in this rifle, range is very critical.....one must be fairly close.

There is a shortage of quality load data for the 357 but 180 gr/1700 fps should be a do-able with WW296/H110 or Lil Gun. One company -- I think it is Buffalo Bore -- offers 180 gr. cast/1800 fps ammo.

I can't offer specific load data for jacketed projectiles because I only shoot cast (190 gr. at 1720 fps, pressure tested with a strain gage).

Ignore Hodgdon's 357 data -- it is TOTALLY SCREWED UP -- note Hodgdon's H110/180 gr. load claims to be 15 fps faster out of 10" pistol than a 18.5" rifle -- HELLOOOOOOO HODGDON, DOES ANYONE THERE KNOW WHAT THE &^#! THEY ARE DOING??? AARRRRRGH !!!!! -- there are many other problems with the Hodgdon 357 data -- Winchester used to publish some good PSI data for the 357 but after Hodgdon bought them out, the good PSI data was dropped and Hodgdon's screwball CUP data was substituted --- AARRRRGH !!!!!).

The light pistol bullets should work great on lung shots but if you hit a big bone at rifle velocities, all bets are off. The 180's make more sense to me. Just my 2 cents worth, etc..

As for you guys poking fun at the 357, look at it this way -- a 30-30 pushing a 170 gr. bullet at maybe 1900 fps with the typical factory load is a proven deelslayer, right? So how is it that a 180 gr. 35 caliber bullet bounces off deer at 1800 fps?

What's holding the 357 rifle back is a lack of quality PSI load data, and I could continue to rant about that, but don't want to hijack the thread. Just take my word for it, WW296 or Lil Gun will push a 180 grainer to an easy 1700 fps at SAAMI pressures.

quote:

Originally posted by popenmann:
As for you guys poking fun at the 357, look at it this way -- a 30-30 pushing a 170 gr. bullet at maybe 1900 fps with the typical factory load is a proven deelslayer, right? So how is it that a 180 gr. 35 caliber bullet bounces off deer at 1800 fps????????

OK! Some guys like women and some go for stump broke heifers. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
OK! Some guys like women and some go for stump broke heifers. roger

Roger, are we saying there's a connection with the latter and users of .357 deer rifles?

years ago when we hunting lots of cougar in montanna the 357 was the one thing that the cats hit with ran away most with. Yea I know lots of guys !!!!! but it sure proved to me that it was not a good killer

quote:

Originally posted by Bohica:
... What do you think would be better? A Hornady 140 XTP coming out of a lever action 24" barrel @ 1800 fps or a Sierra 158 JSP @ 1400fps.

Hey Mark, Between those two, if he keeps ALL his shots behind the shoulder ribs-to-ribs, then the 140XTP will do OK. However, the non-hollow point 158gr JSP Sierra would be also work for that shot as well as shoulder-to-shoulder and directly into the chest. The chances of "Exits" with either is slim, but the 158gr JSP has a better chance of making an Exit.

quote:

The ranges would not exceed 100 yds.

Like Steve, my experience with the 357Mag on Deer is with a revolver. Not real sure how many kills I've made with the old 6" Ruger Target Model, but I'm sure I've never lost a Deer shot with it. Never had to track them very far either.

If he desires Exits(which I prefer), the a Soft Point is going to work better than a Hollow Point. And a Hard Cast Lead bullet with a very Flat wide nose(Keith Style still works) will sail right on through, while providing lots of damage along the way.

Also, heavier and slower plows farther than lighter and faster.

So, if he is concerned about the Bullet making an Exit, then the lighter XTP is a fine way to go. If he absolutely positively wants and Exit, then the Hard Cast Lead Flat Nose is the way to go. And of course, the ones in between still kill well.

Very good cartridge in a revolver for close-up Deer and it should be just excellent in a rifle.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills for your buddy.

quote:

I use a 158 out of a handgun at 1222 FPS, but limit the range to 75 yards.

What Steve said. Using this exact load I have killed two medium sized does with a .357 at about 50 yards. Both were shot through the lungs ( complete penetration ) and acted as if they were hit by the venerable 30-30. They both ran about 50 - 60 yards and gave up the ghost.

The point isn't will a .357 in the hands of the knowlegeable kill a deer. It will. What should be addressed ;is it a wise thing for an intelligent hunter, rifleman or gun nut to advocate the use of the .357 as a totally adequate deer gun or rifle. IT IS NOT.

It is a specialty item used for ""Hey look what I can do"" recognition and satisfaction. If the thread were about the 32-20 someone would be touting the Mod 92 Winchester and Buntline special, special (no duplication). A short time back someone on this forum was talking about going after brown bear with one of the .17 cal rifles.

Sorry guys but sending the message that this is an EXCELLENT deer cartridge to the unsuspecting novice or once a year deer hunter in my opinion is a mistake that could create a lot of near misses and wounded animals. Back to the roger

Mark,

I've taken some large hogs w/ the 158JHPs w/ out a problem. Dropped a Monster 350 lb Boar in his tracks at 25 yards w/ that load and a hit right in front of the shoulder which broke his spine. Nice 4" cutters.

Shot another smaller bore w/ that load running away at a strong quarter. Placed it right in front of the ham and it exited his front shoulder. He made it maybe 20 yards before piling up.

I've had good luck w/ Lil' Gun and Blue Dot pushing the 158s. I tried the 158 XTPs but they wouldn't group as well as the Siearras or Wins. The cheap bulk Win JHPs are darn fine .357 bullets as well if you want an inexpensive bullet.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Bohica:
Hi guys!! Question!!! What do you think would be better? A Hornady 140 XTP coming out of a lever action 24" barrel @ 1800 fps or a Sierra 158 JSP @ 1400fps. The ranges would not exceed 100 yds. Any thoughts or experience would be greatly appreciated.
Aloha, Mark [in Or]

It is easy to excede the terminal design capability of .357 bullets up through 158 gr when loaded in Contenders or rifles. Not sure but 1800 fps might be exceding the XTPs capabilities and give sub par performance on a close range shot at 1800 fps.

I'd suggest looking at the heavier .357 bullets or the 150 gr Remigton made for the .35 Rem. I have seen it safely pushed to 1800+ fps in 24" Rossi's and it kills deer very dead. If some weren't checking out stump broke heifers perhaps they would observe that. The .357 in a rifle does have range limitations just like any other cartridge. Stay within those limitations and put the bullet through the heart/lung area and the deer is yours, just as with any modern 21st century rifle.

Larry Gibson

bartche,
as we used to say when I was a kid, long, long, before Bush was elected, "it's a free country," so you have the right to hunt with whatever caliber your state permits. If you don't like the 357, you don't have to use it.

Personally, I like it. It's my favorite cartridge. And I happen to think that the average guy would be better off using a mild mannered round like the 357, the 30-30, or the 243, rather than a macho magnum.

My only concern is choosing a bullet that penetrates reliably even if heavy bone is hit, and that's why I would lean toward either a premium 180 gr. jacketed or else a hard cast. I'd be leery of a frangible pistol bullet at rifle velocites.