NO Resizing Needed??

Well with Hunting Season over in Oregon and the long wait for ground squirrels coming out, and having time to play at the reload bench, I as usual have to develope some questions we all want answers to.

One that I have seen people ask is " what is the life span of brass?" So in my usual fashion, I decided to find out. I took 25 rounds of once fired 22/250 Winchester Brass, and assigned it to one rifle, a Ruger VT in 22/250. I load the brass up with different loads and go to the range to test accuracy of those loads developed like we all do. In the meantime I am keeping a record of the brasses number of firings and what the loads were. So far it is on its 7th load with no casualties of loose primers etc.

However I found a pleasant surprise recently. Another experiment was seeing which one of the plastic tip 40 grain bullets were the most accurate. The load was 33 grains of RL 7 out of the Lyman 47th manual. The brass was full length sized at its 5th loading, but has been necked sized using a Hornady Neck Sizing Die in 22 caliber otherwise.
Primers are Federal 210s. The velocity of this load is 4150 fps or so.

This particular load after fired with 40 grain VMaxes with an OAL of 63.80mms, ( barely seated down maybe 1/4 an inch)
had a little oily blowback on the cases. A little BRASSO and a cleaning patch shined them right up.

When I went to neck size the brass in the neck sizing die, I got resistance like the case had already been neck sized!
Same thing on the second one!

So I took the other cases and using a 40 grain bullet, just saw how tight the neck still was, by just trying to hand seat the bullet. The NECK WAS TIGHT AS ALREADY SIZED!

I put the case in the rifle to see if the case would be tight or not in the rifle and it was not.

However, I am not sure why, but this load did not even stretch the case enough to require it being resized at all! It is also not an Ackley Improved case for those that may ask.

My only theory is the bullet is seated out far enough and pressure is low enough that the case is not stretching much if at all. What little it may be is bouncing back due to the elasticity of the brass. COOL.

My OAL on this case with a 40 grain VMax was 63.80 mms.
I checked a Winchester factory 50 grain Ballistic Silver tip bullet that some one left at the range that I picked up, and it had an OAL of only 59.40 mms. So this makes a big difference in OAL. Yet the Ruger VT swallowed it with no problems.

If I can get a varmint load that does not require resizing, my little mind is thinking of the time possibilites! Like setting up a little mobile press in the back of the truck, and while a barrel might be cooling, deprime, reprime, load in some more powder and reseat a new bullet and Waste somemore rodents!

Just thought this was cool. If anyone has any similar experiences or ideas of why the neck did not need resized at all., I sure would be interested. I am sure others will also.

Passing it on and will keep an eye out on the progress of this.
It has to add a lot to the life span of the brass!

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Seafire,

FRom what you have stated above,I think we should step back a minute here and think about a few things...

First,if the unsized brass FITS in the chamber YET a bullet will not easily go in the neck(as though it were sized),that would lead me to belive that,due to the high pressures of your 4,100+ FPS loading ,that the brass has flowed into the neck region ,making the necks TOO THICK!

Seat a bullet in one of your "unsized" seven times fired cases and smoke the neck of the case or smear it black with a Black permanent magic marker.I will bet the round with the bullet loaded will chamber hard and you will see the rub marks on the neck.

Just a thought..

Sharp:

I will try that. I am not so sure the neck has thickened tho.

The primers did not go in loosely so I don't think there is a pressure issue.

I necked sized the cases anyway.

I have another load in those 25 pieces of brass and will see what happens when I have shot them at the range today.

I am sure there is an answer, I have just got to find it.

Thanks for the input!

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Seafire:

In nearly 40years of reloading, I have encountered the phenomenon you describe more than a few times, with various rifles and cartridges, and it has definitely NOT been due to thickened case necks.

Certainly, when it does occur, you should immediately make sure that you do not have a zero neck clearance situation, because � obviously - this is a potentially serious danger. But to say that if a bullet will not fit through the neck of a fired case, then the necks MUST be thinned down by either reaming or outside turning is simply not true.

When I have encountered this phenomenon, it has almost invariably been with bullets seated a long way out (light bullets for the calibre, long throated chambers, and/or combinations of both) and powders of medium burning rate � say 80 to 85% loading density. Using moly coated bullets seems to exacerbate the situation. (this might be the wrong wording, because provided the loaded cartridges DO have adequate neck clearance, the fact that the necks do not expand out to the full diameter of the chamber on firing is not really a problem at all)

I�ll give you an example. I have Sako 6PPC which has a chamber neck diameter of 0.271in. (verified by a Cerosafe cast of the chamber) The chamber has a fairly long throat, and the barrel has a twist of 1 turn in 14in, meaning that I am limited to using light bullets, so I seat the bullets WAY out. (and they still don�t quite reach the rifling)

The necks of loaded cartridges using Norma cases, measured over seated bullets, measure 0.263in. With certain loads, the necks don�t expand AT ALL on firing � they still measure 0.263in. I only re-size about half the length of the case necks, and the �steps� in the necks of the fired cases are so obvious that a man on a galloping horse could see them. Behind the step, the necks measure 0.271in, in front they are 0.263in.

I have encountered the same sort of thing with light bullets and medium burning rate powders in my custom 6.5X55, which also has a very long throat. e.g. with 100gr bullets and IMR4064. With heavier - 120 and 140 grain - bullets, and slower powders such as 4350 or 4831, the necks expand out fully on firing, as one would expect them to. I have also seen this happen with my 6mm Remington, and with one of my 308 target rifles, with one particular load.

I don�t pretend to know the exact cause of this phenomenon. I�ve heard various theories, along with claims that it is impossible. (and allegations that I must be smoking funny cigarettes) All I know for certain is that it DOES occur.

PS I still re-size my cases, even if the necks DON'T seem to have expanded measureably. I can feel varying amounts of 'drag' as the expander goes in though the fired case necks, so I feel re-sizing is needed to ensure uniformity.

Redrover:

After playing with this a little more today, I reloaded the same 25 cases and shot them at the range. Once again, same thing. They did chamber a little stiffer after this loading, but I neck sized them again and did another load.

I don't think the neck is thickening, but we will see after several more firings.

Long seating the bullets and not still touching the lands.
These are 40 grain Plastic Tipped bullets. So far one load with VMaxes, second one was with Blitzkings and the one to be shot at the neck trip are Ballistic tips. I also plan to do the Sierra 40 gr HP.

The load is 33.5 grains of RL 7, Winchester brass and Fed 210 primers.

This is a side note to seeing if one plastic tip bullet is any more accurate than the other.

this is what seafire does when he has too much spare time on his hands ( when it isn't hunting season).

cheers and good shooting
seafire

The above sounds possible...

Are your case necks blackened?

dhs

I'm the victim of that. The boolit exits (too?) fast and the necks are really crappy on the outside. Whats the cure? The loads are really good, 3 skots covered with a thump nail @ 200m/220yds.