Now that I am about to get into reloading I wonder....What is all the fuss about bullet speed?

You have to be gentle with me! I am a beginner. As an archer I have paid some attention to the speed of my arrows but know they are no match for bullets. That is because all of my ammo has been store bought.

With archery I have never had game "jump" my string yet I know the arrow is standing still in speed in relation to a bullet. So why the fuss to push bullets so fast? I've never shot at game further than the 280 to 300 yard range with a firearm. Does it affect the shock imparted on the game?

My calibers for reloading include my 30.06 and more importantly my .300 Win Mag and even more importantly my .375 H&H.

Any help in understanding the importance, if there is any with bullet speed will be greatly appreciated.

------------------
~Ann
Orion Trophy Expeditions

I just couldn't resist

If they go very fast the trajectory is flatter, hence much less guesstimation if you are at a somewhat extended range. Also the bullet hits a bit harder. Then again there is the "guy thing", i.e., bragging rights. Mine is faster than yours and all that garbage.

John Taylor wrote some very interesting books regarding cartridges and he talks a bit about velocity. I have never had the disease myself since all the rifles I own would be considered slow but hit like a freight train.

------------------

A 250 gr Speer out of my Whelen at 2400 gives a point blank range on elk of almost 300 yards.

So, with the 7 mag, I can shoot 100 yards farther without holding over. Big Whoopee! Dutch.

That said, everything in reloading is a trade off. It is rare when it isn't. I want the maxumum accuracy and I am willing to sacrifice velocity. I can safely push a 180 grain Barnes X out of my 300 at 3100 FPS, but accuracy is only fair. By dropping 1.5 grains under max and getting 3000 FPS, I have the magical sub minute of angle accuracy. That's a tradeoff I am happy to make when I faced with a long shot across a Colorado canyon.

Ann is correct. Speed and velocity are two different things, and speed is the correct term in this case. Speed is simply how fast something is moving (scalar). Velocity includes information about direction as well (vector).

In most cases, a load below maximum is more accurate, easier on you, and easier on the gun. Those who miss the recoil can put a 2x6 up to their shoulder, and have a friend smack it with a large hammer.

In other cases, maximum speed is very important. If hunting elk with a 308, you're going to want to squeeze out the longest, flattest trajectory, with the most kinetic energy that you can get without breaking something.

My theory is that when hunting, you should use the minimum cartridge and load that will quickly, reliably and humanely kill.

when you're shooting at pasture poodles from let's say 500 meters you want all the velocity you can get your hands on. The flatter the trajectory, the easier it becomes to figure range and hold over.

But too . . . the bullet begins to lose velocity the second it leaves the muzzle. The lighter bullets lose velocity faster than heavier bullets. While a 180 gr. 30 cal bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2500 fps has a lot of poop down range 300 yds., the 40 gr. .224 cal slows down pretty rapidly. So, you crank it to 4000 fps if you can.

But I readily concede that it's about "bragging rights" too.

------------------
.223 Ackley Improved Wildcat Forum:
http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=223ackleyimproved

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roger Rothschild:
It is NOT "bullet speed", it is VELOCITY!

---

Yeah? Well then why was Superman faster than a "speeding bullet", not a "high velocity bullet"?

My own version of "couldn't resist".

Remember this, Aspen, above all my other teachings. SHOT PLACEMENT is what punches their ticket. Velocity don't mean much. Foot pounds of energy don't mean much. If your bullet has sufficient power to punch into the vital organs, something is gonna die.

Sure is true that the faster your bullet goes, the more energy it has and the flatter your trajectory. All of which are good things to have. But what no one wants to discuss is "at what range?" NORMAL hunting shots for MOST of the human race are under 100 yds. And withing this range, that extra velocity is virtually useless.

If you hunt like you did with your bow, Aspen, and learn to PLACE your shots, you'll never come home hungry.

Your battery makes it possible for you to use all of your weapons in a conservative, rationale manner. The 30-06 loaded within reasonable limits will boost a 180gr bullet to 2700fps with a 22 inch barrel. This will do any plains game within 300yds. Your 300mag will extend that range 100 yds with a similar load.

The 375 will give you a heavy rifle that can handle a heavy bullet out to 300yds.

Check out 4350 powders for you 30-06 with Federal 210M primers and 180gr bullets from Nosler, BT and Partition. For you 300mag try 4831 with 180's or 200gr bullets. Primers could be 210 or 215 Federal match. Finally, the 375; try 77grs of WW760 with 300 grain bullets. This ought to give you an honest 2500fps.

Good luck. Handloading is its own hobby. Ku-dude

In a 300 Win Mag vs a 30-06 the difference in drop at 300 yds with a 200 yd zero is less than 1.5 inches. ( about 6 vs about 7.5 in)

The difference in speed between these calibers is nominally 200 fps. The difference in max velocity amd best accuracy within a cliber is typically less than 75 fps. So we are talking about a difference in drop of certainly less than an ich and probably less than 3/4 of an inch.

I am having troubling imagining being able to tell looking thru a scope set on say 7 to 9 power at a big game animal say 300 yds away if I am holding 6.5 vs 7,5 inches above my desired point of impact.

------------------
MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

[This message has been edited by Mike Dettorre (edited 05-22-2002).]

Take a look in a reloading manual for the information on the caliber and bullet weight/style your interested in. Next note how these velocities were measured ie out of a test barrel or off the bench using a regular rifle. What your looking for is the barrel length and how it compares to the rifle you will be using. Now select your starting load and work up to an accurate load which should put you in the top 20% of the velocity spread and you should be home and dry.

Also note that certain bullets are desgined to work best in certain velocity envolopes.
As an example a 30 cal bullet designed for a 30-30 would not be a good choice for a .300Win Mag.

[This message has been edited by Pete E (edited 05-22-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmo:
Ann
Do yourself a big favor and buy a chronograph. I use a $100 "Chrony" and it works just great for me. Knowing your velocity, extreme spread, and standard deviation, for your load development is absolutly essential IMHO. I wouldn't ever want to work up a load without one again.

---

I'll second that.

I spent $350 on an Oehler Proof 35P. Best money I've spent on shooting so far. All these years I've been "lying" to myself.

------------------
.223 Ackley Improved Wildcat Forum:
http://www.hotboards.com/plus/plus.mirage?who=223ackleyimproved

------------------
~Ann
Orion Trophy Expeditions

To understand the role velocity plays, a person must first understand how the projectile causes trauma to the animal.

As a bow hunter, you need velocity to (1) get your projectile to the target, and (2) provide enough momentum that your projectile pentrates the target an adquate amount in order that (3) the cutting edges of the projectile cause sufficient blood loss for the animal to lose conciousness, fall, and eventually expire.

With a bullet, it is a bit different. Just as with a bow the velocity gets the projectile to the target (and the higher the velocity, in general, the simpler it is to hit the target). Also, as with a bow, the velocity is needed to impart sufficient momentum to cause the projectile to penetrate the animal in order to inflict trama on its vital organs. However, while a bullet CAN cause the animal to expire simply by blood loss alone, this is a very inefficient and unreliable.

Just as the arrowhead is effective by slicing through blood vessals and organs, the bullet is effecitive by causing trauma to vital organs by energy transfer (a combination of bullet expansion, momentum, and hydraulic shock). If the terminal velocity of the bullet is insufficient to create sufficient trauma, the the animal may not be successfully taken.

Now, this doesn't mean that a 5% difference in muzzle velocities will make all the difference in the world, but a .30 Carbine bullet striking an elk at 1500 fps may not be effective, while a .30-06 bullet striking the same elk at 2500 fps may be quickly terminal.

In general, the more velocity, the more the momentum and energy, thus the more ability to cause lethal trauma on striking. There are, of course, many, many variables affecting ultimate bullet performance, such as the construction of the bullet, point of optimum expansion, and a host of other factors which may affect the effectiveness of a given shot.

The short answer to your question is that sufficient velocity is necessary to make a bullet work, and a bullet generally works harder the faster it travels.

Since you have both a .30/06 and a .300 Winchester, you probably already fully understand this. Each shoots (or can shoot) essentially the same bullet, the only difference being that one shoots it with more velocity than the other. Obviously, you probably pick the .300 when the ranges are longer and the quarry is tougher, because the added velocity helps you hit the more distant target, and delivers more energy to be converted to trauma.

[This message has been edited by Stonecreek (edited 05-24-2002).]

quote:

---

Hi Ann...
As a middle of the road gay, shooting middle of the road calibres on middle of the road distances ( I set my personal max to 300 meters ), the speed obsession is lost on me.

---