I am having a hard time finding basic load data software.

Here is what I am looking for:

I have reloading book data of 22-250 as:
40gr bullet, 36gr IMR4064, 3,877 START
40gr bullet, 38.5 IMR4064, 4,187 MAXIMUM

Here is the problem. If I use 37.5gr....what is my velocity?

I can break it down on a calculator, but there is probably software out there to do this.

Thanks,
John

For what it worth. I simply tweaked the burn rate in QL until 36 grs gave me your starting velocity. 37.5 then calculates 4036.

The normal calculation using std burn rate would be 3978 for 37.5.

It will depend on the 40gr bullet. Using a different bullet QL calls 37.5 as 4019.

Without actually shooting it, everything including QL is just a guesstimate.

"Without actually shooting it, everything including QL is just a guesstimate".


I agree QL is only a calculation. Only actual really counts. But on the flip side I have never had an actual match a manual either.

Jake
You ain't going to get either of those (or any other) listed velocities. You don't own the same gun they used.
Also, the charge/pressure/velocity curve, while fairly linear (in the range we work in) is still a curve
Start with 3 at 36gr, another 3 at 36.4, 36.8....38.4, and head for the range. Select those powder charges that produce the tightest groups and repeat the testing with 5 shot groups.
The powder charge that produced the tightest group is the one to stay with.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
Without actually shooting it, everything including QL is just a guesstimate.

Exactly!

Each rifle will give different velocity for the same load.

It can actually be quite significant.

We had 5 identical Steyer rifles in 270 Winchester.

We shot Norma 150 grain ammo in them, and the fastest barrel gave us 150 fps more than the slowest!!!??

Use loading data as a reference. And if you want to know your own velocity, you have to use a chronograph.

While I sure some data in the manual comes from actual measurement. Other data probably isn't.

Reading my old Hornady manual it talks about simply extrapolating data. Or for powders like IMR taking parallel lines to forecast velocities. Maximums being a full case or head expansion. As others stated every rifle is different. If they used a pressure barrel just another factor to cloud the water.


Manuals QL etc will get you in the ballpark. You won't know the answer until you measure your load in your rifle.

Ok guys, I spent a couple of hours this morning and wrote my own software.

All I wanted was more basic data from the powder companies published data as a guide.

This is what QL will tell you.

Next time it would help if you post; What bullet, what barrel length.



4000 fps without a pressure issue is a dream IMO.

I don't need all of that. I'm not that much of a nerd.

I mean what? A person could be like predicting the weather. lol Looks like it could be a 20% sway from one batch to another.

"Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value"

If you have all the answers, why did you ask the question?

Just asking.

I do not have all the answers.

I only asked if anyone knew of BASIC software to calculate a velocity for a known powder amount from a powder manufacture's data.

Pretty straight forward. It can be calculated by hand using the their existing data. A person already knows the book data is not completely accurate. But it can be a pain, especially if you have to remind yourself how to use the calculation between uses.

My sons and I are not competition shooters.

It doesn't require the barrel, etc facts... That is a given by using the paper data. It just needs the START and MAX, then calculate by tenths in between.

The reason I use the calculations is because often I want to use one gun for several purposes.

For instance, if I want to use it for varmints with a 40 grain bullet and also use it with 55 grain bullets on something else, where I don't need to save the hide, while also reloading both of them on the same press and charge setup, I can do it with the tenth calculations that are not available in the manuals.

In this situation I can use a 40gr, 52gr and 55gr bullets using the same powder charge and press setup and only have a paper difference of 100 fps between the bullet loads. That is basically no difference between them when shooting, say up to 300 yards.

The data from QL gives more fps difference in powder lots.

No problem here, just wondered.

I seldom assume the book data and my data will be tha same. Some are closer than others.

I have found that determining the velocity powder weight relationship is a good start . . .
feet per second /powder grain weight
Then average the numbers and multiply time the proposed power weight.

They are all SWAGs and I have found the professional calculators will be misleading sometimes.

I have 4 powder manufactures books I purchased over the years, and during the last decade have downloaded even more. I am always amazed how different the published loads can be with the same powders from different companies.

I bought a chrony maybe 3 decades ago but it is still in the box, never used it. Did not seem to need it. It is all relative anyway. I don't need to shoot anything that far to need that info. I am getting to old to be that accurate anyway.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jake68:

Wrong information post deleted

quote:

Originally posted by jake68:
I have 4 powder manufactures books I purchased over the years, and during the last decade have downloaded even more. I am always amazed how different the published loads can be with the same powders from different companies.

I bought a chrony maybe 3 decades ago but it is still in the box, never used it. Did not seem to need it. It is all relative anyway. I don't need to shoot anything that far to need that info. I am getting to old to be that accurate anyway.

I can't imagine working up loads without the use of a chrono. High velocity = high pressure, period. Can't have one without the other. If you have a total disregard for watching pressure then you need to stick to factory ammo.

Who said I don't watch for high pressure loads? You seem to have taken something out of context.

But, that is what the powder books are for. They give you the start and max loads.

I never use max loads, and I have never done a bad (high pressure) load.

quote:

Originally posted by jake68:
Ok guys, I spent a couple of hours this morning and wrote my own software.

All I wanted was more basic data from the powder companies published data as a guide.

What you have written, what QL provides and what any reloading manual or published reloading data provides doesn't give you the foggiest idea of what your actual rifle will be doing with any given load. The fog will only be lifted when you shoot your loads across a chronograph. I have sometimes found, as have others, that a higher charge of powder can give a lower velocity than the previous lower charge.

If you really want to get down to the nuts and bolts of what various powders, charges of powder bullet weights, brands and styles will do in a firearm CHRONOGRAPH. There is no fancy crystal ball on the market yet that can predict what you get when you pull the trigger.

Oh and I do need to add that sometimes you don't want to know what the chronograph tells you

Why does everybody think I need to be a nerd about shooting and reloading???

I looked at QL and I have stated my thought already.

For me it is an occasional hobby. Not a profession.

Most reloading manuals give you a start and max powder and velocity. Most do not always give you the data by tenths.

The only reloading books that I have seen that gives you a range of powder and velocities is Hornady, other than the start and max, and even at that they are not by grains, but by velocity. For instance, a bullet powder and velocity is listed as 2,500 at 46.6 grains. The next step up is by a range of 2,600 at 48.5 grains. That is all most 2 full grains.

Yes, I know a chronograph is the best way to check velocity. That takes a lot of time and money which I don't have and or I am not willing to do. I do not have the luxury of having a farm, acreage or ranch with a house window I can shoot out of my reloading room. It is a 30 minute drive to a range and costs me each time for the range. I am not what you would call a gun nut or gun nerd.

Once again, I am not a competition or cowboy shooter! My 2 sons and I go out and shoot targets every once when they come home from other states where they live.

"If you really want to get down to the nuts and bolts".

No I don't. And this is my last word on this.

Well dang if we ruffled your feathers. Nobody can tell you what your velocity will be, reloading books, QL and any other crystal ball gazing only give theoretical velocities and mean nothing in the real world of reloading. I too don't have the luxuries you speak of and have to drive about the same distance to a range that costs me by way of an annual fee. You have a chronograph, learn to use it and you will get much more satisfaction from your reloading that no book or software will provide. Like others have here, I am only offering advice from decades of reloading and shooting a whole raft of cartridges. Sorry to have offended you.

I'm not offended. It just seems everyone on this thread thinks the only way to reload is by way of being a perfectionist.

Knowing the exact velocity of my reloads is not an important point to me. What is, in this situation, is knowing what I can do with certain powders and velocities with certain bullet weights. And accuracy.

Also, in this situation, I am using IMR 4895. The Hornady manual gives several powders at a range of velocities for the 22-250, but oddly doesn't list IMR 4895. So, using the Hodgdon website and using their online software it gives me only the start and max numbers.

It is not that I know everything, it is more that I have a different object.

Some people said that QL would do the same thing. Maybe, but isn't it $153 bucks? When it is a calculation you can do by hand?

quote:

Originally posted by jake68:
I'm not offended. It just seems everyone on this thread thinks the only way to reload is by way of being a perfectionist.

When reloading, guessing, gunpowder, and primers don't mix. You need to stick to factory loads.

When I'm making things explode at 50,000 - 60,000 PSIG, six inches in front of my face I try to be a little bit of a perfectionist.

I have to ask....why are you trying to push the max? Haven't you ever heard of using a tire and string to test a high pressure round? I don't even need to do that because I don't push the boundaries!

What the heck are you doing where things explode. Seems that is way to risky to me. I do not do that. Maybe if that is happening to you , you need to examine your own processes and safety measures.

You guys, that are harping, seem to be unsure of your work. If your gun is safe and you use the reloading manuals, you should be safe.

But that requires to not push the boundaries. And why would you do that anyway? Most high pressure loads are known to be dangerous or inaccurate.

There is nothing unsafe or dangerous about using reloading manuals for a 40gr bullet at the lower end of the manuals scale while using the same setup and manual to use a 55gr bullet to reload near the top of the manuals scale. All within the manuals load data limits.

"When I'm making things explode at 50,000 - 60,000 PSIG, six inches in front of my face I try to be a little bit of a perfectionist."

You need to take your own advice since you are the one exploding things.

Have you ever head of "The Peter Principle"? It is the concept of anticipating problems before they happen.

Maybe perfectionist isn't the correct word. Maybe the best word to use is purest. Some of you guys have never understood the concept that I was talking about and only espouse the known reloading dogma.

take a look at this
http://shootersnotes.com/calcu.../velocity-estimator/

quote:

Originally posted by jake68:
Maybe perfectionist isn't the correct word. Maybe the best word to use is purest. Some of you guys have never understood the concept that I was talking about and only espouse the known reloading dogma.

John no one is trying to be the perfectionist, I would be the last one to be called that but I do show some caution when reloading and use various signs to indicate to me when I should back off a particular load. However I have done some experimenting of necessity in earlier years where reloading data was not so readily available as now.

I understand what you are asking and with simple maths you can easily calculate that your starting load at the 36gr level provides 107.7 fps/grain and your maximum load is providing 108.7 fps/grain at that level. Your in between load of 37.5gr is most likely going to give you 4050fps pretty close to the 4019fps ramrod340 says QL indicates.

At this minimal spread of charge weights it is close enough to linear. If you were asking velocity data for charges spanning 10grs of powder then a linear approach is not going to be quite the way to go.

But the point some of us are making is that your 22-250 may only be doing 2700fps with that starting load and possibly 2950fps with the maximum load therefore your velocity figures are actually meaningless as is any extrapolation of them to other powder charges.

I just use the cheap very first model Chrony and it may not give the nth degree velocities either but it does give velocities that correlate pretty close to say subsonic 22 which is a good check for chronographs and also when shooting Superformance 7mm-08 across my Chrony I get 2900fps from a 22" barrel, close to the factory claimed 2950fps from a 24" barrel so I do have faith that it is indicating velocities pretty close to true in any particular rifle, shotgun or pistol I shoot over it and i have shot a lot of stuff using the Chrony.

Personally, unless you were trying to find loads for some rare wildcat and the Internet now will find just about anything, I don't see much use for data software. The manuals or data online provide enough safe starting loads and then only a chronograph will tell you what you are actually getting from your particular rifle.

This is not being perfectionist or anal its just providing basic information relevant to your rifle. Admittedly some chronographs take a little bit of setting up at the range which can be a pain if waiting for a break in firing but the little Chrony is about as cheap and easy as you can get and quick enough to set up.
If I was wanting it any simpler than this I wouldn't bother with velocity, just pick a safe charge to start and go for accuracy with no adverse pressure signs.

Seems to me evewry here are attempting to address your question, most posts have merit, and your set on being arguemenitive to a fault with each of them..

To me the question in the first place was without merit as the difference between a half grain of powder or even 4 or 5 grs of any specific powder,as that figure only applies to a specific rifle, not every rifle out there..

All rifles in every caliber are an inity unto themselves, and a certain load, any load, can vary as much as a 100 FPS between rifles, for a number of reasons, so your question cannot be answered....

Loading books are nothing more than a general starting place for the uneducated beginner, or the experienced loader, looking for a starting place. Even the books vari by a number of grains as to what is max...

The other option is perhaps you don't want an answer unless it agrees with your fague concept of what is correct or not correct..

Try this link -- Velocity Estimator

The software behind it is similar to the Powley method but calibrates for the powder energy term using your reference load. That means that you can use any powder and bullet to get reasonable results as long as you have at least one reference velocity with that powder and bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
Try this link -- Velocity Estimator

The software behind it is similar to the Powley method but calibrates for the powder energy term using your reference load. That means that you can use any powder and bullet to get reasonable results as long as you have at least one reference velocity with that powder and bullet.

And where would you get a referenced velocity for a particular powder and bullet for your particular gun?
A chronograph of course, the very point most are trying to make here. If you have and use a chronograph you do not need software estimators. The OP has a chronograph but is reluctant to use it. He will need to use it to get a referenced velocity. We are Catch-22 here.

QL is just like a reloading manual. It is a place to start! I have owned and updated my through the years. It is a good tool! Once again, it is a place to start and good information!

quote:

And where would you get a referenced velocity for a particular powder and bullet for your particular gun?
A chronograph of course, the very point most are trying to make here. If you have and use a chronograph you do not need software estimators. The OP has a chronograph but is reluctant to use it. He will need to use it to get a referenced velocity. We are Catch-22 here.

A lot of folks use QuickLoad, the Powley Computer, the Velocity Estimator and other tools as guides in load work up in concert with their chronograph data.

And true, all need to be calibrated against real world measurements.

The entry level and the mid-skill level reloaders all get a better sense of comfort knowing what an added .5 gr does to the muzzle velocity.

Knowing the trends helps in load development and in understanding the impact of a half grain more or less has on trajectory and wind drift 'way out there.'

Knowing what the velocity might be for heavier loads than the nominal maximum recommended load is is especially useful when coupled with a trajectory calculator. The insight gained is that one is not likely to get enough added reduction in drop or drift to be noticeable within the shooter's skills. The result is that fewer folks try loads that might generate dangerously high pressures.

quote:

Ok guys, I spent a couple of hours this morning and wrote my own software.

quote:

I'm not that much of a nerd.

You do realize that these comments you made are in direct conflict, don't you. You say "I don't need all of that", but then go on to build a table for every .1 grain that no powder measure will guarantee every time.

I'm voting troll.