how are ya...my range is 65 yards when working up a load I have 250-3000 sav shooting 87 gr speer with 3031 powder ..
53 years and i like this load a lot ..

My question is what range would you test loads to see best groups being I only have 65 yards ..some locally say 25 yards others 50 yards what to you folks feel is best..

thanks jim k

%0 or 65 yrds for testing and compairing groups should give you a good Idea about the load.
I sight in a 100yds. and usually 1" high

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
%0 or 65 yrds for testing and compairing groups should give you a good Idea about the load.
I sight in a 100yds. and usually 1" high

Our range is only 65 yards long ...Does it make difference shooting like 25 yards vrs say 65 yards to check your groups?Alot easier to hold on bullseye at 25 yards etc..Thanks..

Welcome to the forum Sproulman! I used to sight in my rifles @ 200 yds. But not anymore. A lot of people will tell you to do that so you are set for long shots, but here is the rub. What if you get a closer shot that is at an angle?? Close up shots seem to be more common to me and when you get them you dont have a lot of time for calculations, piddeling around with numbers and doping a shot in reverse. I had a close up shot at a buck on a very sharp angle above me, a rifle sighted in @ 200 yds and lets just say I was lucky to get him at all. Never again. Im done sighting in @ 200 yds. As far as load testing I like to go 100 yds, but if 65 is what youve got, then dance with what you brung. 50 yds is fine too. I would say whatever you are comfortable with.

For me, 250 yds.
I shoot only my own reloads. For my general hunting calibres .270 W, .300 Win Mag, but mostly 30.06 I want them sighted to hit POA at 250 yds, and hunting effective to 350 yds. If I am working up a new load I get it sighted in about 2 - 3 inches high at 100 yds, then a.s.a.p. move back to 250 yds for further load refinement and ensuring accuracy. My reason for doing load development this way is that frequently a load shooting acceptably at 100 yds does not necessarily also group nicely at 250 and 300 yds. Shooting at these distances while load tweaking is the only way I have found loads with the accuracy for those longer distances. Once that is determined these loads also shoot well at 100 - 200 yds, as one would expect.
With most / all of my loads thus sighted I find the 100 yds POI generally to be very close to the 200 yds POI.

If 65 yards is all you have then it is a moot point; you test at 65 yards. I test most things at 100, and double rifles at 50.

If all you have it 65yds so be it. Should be fine. If you are going to be shooting 200+yds I would find a longer range. I really like to at least verify my loads at my anticipated longest distance.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Welcome to the forum Sproulman! I used to sight in my rifles @ 200 yds. But not anymore. A lot of people will tell you to do that so you are set for long shots, but here is the rub. What if you get a closer shot that is at an angle?? Close up shots seem to be more common to me and when you get them you dont have a lot of time for calculations, piddeling around with numbers and doping a shot in reverse. I had a close up shot at a buck on a very sharp angle above me, a rifle sighted in @ 200 yds and lets just say I was lucky to get him at all. Never again. Im done sighting in @ 200 yds. As far as load testing I like to go 100 yds, but if 65 is what youve got, then dance with what you brung. 50 yds is fine too. I would say whatever you are comfortable with.

Please explain to me how the 200 yard zero make close shots hard.

Looking at the math with a 1.5" sight hight and several different bullet bc's, fps and weights I just can't see your point.

For instance

.308 dia
180 grns
.507 bc
2800 fps
200 yard zero

This load only has a 2" up and down deviation in 200 yards with a maximum of 1.8" high and a minimum of .2 low

quote:

I used to sight in my rifles @ 200 yds. But not anymore. A lot of people will tell you to do that so you are set for long shots, but here is the rub. What if you get a closer shot that is at an angle??

I actually sight in for max point blank range. Seldom go past that distance now days. So point and click.

The OP is asking about working up loads, not zeroing for long range shots. He didn't say how far his game shots are. but if he is hunting in his home state of PA, then 65 yards is a long shot.
Most modern cartridges will hit the vitals of a deer up to 300 yards without holding under or over, with a 200 yard zero.
As far as the sharp up or down angles goes, it is only the true horizontal distance that matters to a bullet even though it is 400 yards. Gravity only works on the bullet's horizontal travel, (Not really, but for hunting shots, it is valid) You can't shoot a bullet into the moon though.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The OP is asking about working up loads, not zeroing for long range shots. He didn't say how far his game shots are. but if he is hunting in his home state of PA, then 65 yards is a long shot.
Most modern cartridges will hit the vitals of a deer up to 300 yards without holding under or over, with a 200 yard zero.
As far as the sharp up or down angles goes, it is only the true horizontal distance that matters to a bullet even though it is 400 yards. Gravity only works on the bullet's horizontal travel, (Not really, but for hunting shots, it is valid) You can't shoot a bullet into the moon though.

I wasn't addressing the OP....and Pennsylvania does indeed offer the ability to shoot beyond 200

Appreciate you taking the time to lay all of that out though...

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
If all you have it 65yds so be it. Should be fine. If you are going to be shooting 200+yds I would find a longer range. I really like to at least verify my loads at my anticipated longest distance.

This is the best advice

Calculator


You can use this to figure bullet drop at other distances if sighting at 65 Yd.

From Hodgden you can approximate velocity. From Speer, you can get bullet data. From your rifle, you can get sight plane to bore distance. You can then adjust your sights or point of aim accordingly.

Since your OP was about "best group" none of that actually matters. What matters is that you have a 65 yd range. Consider that a 1/2" group at 50 yd (slightly less than 1 MOA) would be a 1" group at 100yd.

If you group at 65 yds, just multiply by 100/65 to figure a 100 yd group size.

Doug

I do most of my work ups at 70 yards. That's about all the straight line range I can get on game on my property so that's it.

You guys really know your stuff..Thanks..

I just started reloading my 250-3000 sav model 99..Been longtime back in 62 I started with dad...

our range at camp max is 65 yards..I just want to check my groups after I load and was concerned maybe you check at 100 yards to see how they group or 25 yards?

I really never asked if there is certain yards that you should shoot to know if your load is best or best group on your reloads?

That was my question I know its easier to hold crosshairs at 25 yds vrs 100 yards..

I know we sight in our flintlocks at 13 yards dead then check groups at 50 yards ..

quote:

That was my question I know its easier to hold crosshairs at 25 yds vrs 100 yards

Big difference between sighting in your rifle and determining how well your handload groups in your rifle. Just about anything will group at 25yds.

When someone sights in his rifle at say 25yds he is simply using the fact the barrel is below the scope. The barrel "Normally" points upward across the line of sight of the scope allowing the bullet to cross back across this line say at 100 or 200Yds. Since the barrel is around 1.5" below the scope crossing at around 25yds keeps you in minute of deer for normal hunting.

This is a good program to play with for external ballistics and trajectory. http://www.jbmballistics.com/c...jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

So I guess checking to see how my reloads group doing it at 25 yards is not good...
how about beyond that I have 65 yards to do it at camp BUT I can get to 100yards also at range ..

also I have 3x9 power leupold ..Do i turn it up to 9 power to see better if shooting at 60/100 yards?

my caliber is 250-3000 sav model 99 using 87 gr Speer bullet ..

thanks for tips learning a lot here ...

To test a load 25 is too close. 100 or 200 would be better. However I would guess you simply want to know your loads are accurate for your hunting. Many of us work to make a 1" grouping rifle a .75". Do you care if your reloads are 1.5 or 2"?.
What is your hunting range? Unless you are shooting 200yd or more if your loads give you a group in the 2" range at 65yds I would call it good.

As.to scope higher power helps to reduce your hold error. Lets you focus on a smaller point on the target.

25 yards is good to get you on paper or to impress the unknowing...

I don't use rifles with scopes, open sights only, and do all my preliminary testing at 50 yards. Once I find a couple loads that suit me at that range I'll shoot them on my 100 yard target. I would think an inch high at your 65 yard range should easily make your rifle good to at least 150 yards and probably more. As others mentioned if I'm going to be shooting 200 or beyond I really do prefer to put the rifle on paper at whatever that distance might be.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Welcome to the forum Sproulman! I used to sight in my rifles @ 200 yds. But not anymore. A lot of people will tell you to do that so you are set for long shots, but here is the rub. What if you get a closer shot that is at an angle?? Close up shots seem to be more common to me and when you get them you dont have a lot of time for calculations, piddeling around with numbers and doping a shot in reverse. I had a close up shot at a buck on a very sharp angle above me, a rifle sighted in @ 200 yds and lets just say I was lucky to get him at all. Never again. Im done sighting in @ 200 yds. As far as load testing I like to go 100 yds, but if 65 is what youve got, then dance with what you brung. 50 yds is fine too. I would say whatever you are comfortable with.

Please explain to me how the 200 yard zero make close shots hard.

Looking at the math with a 1.5" sight hight and several different bullet bc's, fps and weights I just can't see your point.

For instance

.308 dia
180 grns
.507 bc
2800 fps
200 yard zero

This load only has a 2" up and down deviation in 200 yards with a maximum of 1.8" high and a minimum of .2 low

Me too?????

.

I test all my loads at 100 yards but I don't see why 65 yards can't work for load testing to at least give you some idea of the relative capability of one load versus another.

Certainly shooter error will have less affect at 65 yards compared to longer distances.

For my deer rifles I sight it 1 1/2" high at 100 yards which put me 1" low at 200 yards with my 308. Where I hunt shots beyond 200 yards on deer are rare. So if I aim at the vitals I can expect a lethal hit anywhere from 50 to 200 yards.

My club has a 600 yard range. That attracts long range shooters. They maintain that one never knows how accurate a load is until 200 yards.

If I had your 65 yd range, its what I would shoot. I would find something longer to check my results.

I have a rifle that does not 'follow' the ballistic charts or programs. The printed material is a great tool, but nothing is better than actually shooting at extended ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by youp50:
I have a rifle that does not 'follow' the ballistic charts or programs. The printed material is a great tool, but nothing is better than actually shooting at extended ranges.

Totally agree with this statement - I verify all my rifles at the ranges I intend to shoot especially for varmint and predator hunting since the margin of error is so much smaller.

Somewhere on the Internet you will probably find trajectory info close to your rifle's performance for 50 or 100 yards, to zero at either 100 or 200, which you can extrapolate to the 65-yard distance.

If you want to zero at 100, having the impact about 0.3" high at 65 yards would probably be close enough.

If you want to have a 200-yard zero, it would probably need to be about 2.3" high at 100 yards; this might amount to about +1.4" at 65 yards.

Unless you habitually use a range finder, the exact impact at 200 yards becomes a moot point because critters don't always line up at a yardage sign and our perception of distance is rarely that accurate.

As to the matter of shooting on extreme angles, I'm inclined to think the use of horizontal distance to the target may be an over-simplification of the problem. Say your target was only 25 yards out but 100 yards down (or up) the hill. Using that logic you would probably shoot straight at the beast because 25 yards was roughly where the bullet crossed when zeroed to be, say, 2.5 inches high at 100.

However, your scope is about 1.5 inches above the bore, which would put your barrel looking 4.5 inches above the crosswires at 100 yards. This might incorporate the 2.5" you've added to get the 200-yard zero and most of the gravity accounted for in the bullet getting to 100 yards on the flat, but your shot could go three or four inches higher than you aimed.

For this reason, I think Wstrnhuntr's logic has a lot to recommend it, when hunting in very steep country.