I am fairly new to reloading, very new to rifle reloading.

I am loading for a 22-250. I am looking for acuracy and a decent speed (3400- 3600fps or so)

I have figured out the OAL for my particular rifle is right at 2.500. I did this by using a split neck case and one of the bullets (Nosler BT 55g) that I will be using. I put the bullet in the case and chambered it, When measured upon removing from the rifle it measured 2.522 many times. The shortest measurement I got was 2.519, the max was 2.524.

So question #1, is the 2.500 a reasonable OAL for this rifle, brass and bullet?

I am using new Winchester brass (FL sized) and CCI BR-2 primers.


Second question.

I am using Varget, at least until this pound is gone.

The max load is 36.5g. I started out at 35grains and have been going up by .3grain per 10 loads. I know I didn't drop the recommended 10% off of max for a starting load. This rifle has shot well with a 50g BlitzKing loaded with 37g of varget.

I am metering short by a bit and then using a trickler to get to my desired amount.

Is going up by .3 increments reasonable or should I go by .5? I am thinking the .3 should give me the data I need to decrease the trial and error if I go by .5. Once I narrow it down to a couple of loads I can then go back and split the difference on them.

So, am I making this harder than I need too, or am I going about things pretty much the way one should?

thanks for any and all ideas, info and comments.

bob

quote:

am I going about things pretty much the way one should?

You're doing fine.

The size of the steps depends a whole lot on the capacity of the case, the burn rate of the powder and, a little, the weight of the bullet. Taking too large a step can easily have you jump right over a good node, small steps are much better.

I don't start using .5 gr. steps until the cases are larger than .30-06. In really small cases such as the .223 I use initial steps of .2 gr.

Your starting OAL at some 19 to 24 thou off the lands is also fine. After you find the best charge weight you should experiment in seating steps by maybe 5 per step, in and out, until you find the best OAL for that charge and bullet.

I think you would have good results just doing groups of three instead of ten, at least until you actually find the approximate best node points. Then maybe do steps of .1 gr. until you identify the full width of the good shooting range, then load in the middle of that range for best results over time. Nothing is gained by shooting more rounds of a batch that the first two-three shots clearly proves they aren't worth pursuing.

I've found both Varget and IMR-4064 to be very good in my .22-250. (LOVE a hot charge of Varget under Barne's 36 gr. "Grenades" sitting 40 thou off the lands, I get well under MOA and near 4,200 fps!)

I dont think you are doing it hard just thourough. 3/10 of a grain is ok. What I look at is the span of the powder load for this powder bullet combination would be between 34 and 39grs which is pretty wide I would start at 35 and load in 1/2gr steps up to a 1/2gr from max. you should find a good accurate load somewhere in that span or one that looks workable. I would not mess too much with the oal untill you find a load you like.
Always lean toward "caution" and you should be ok.
oal is subjective: actually 2.50 is long if you are measuring to the tip, that means that the ojive of the bullet is probably in contact with the lands of the chamber. you should use the same type bullet for the measurement that you are goin to load. the 52 gr bullets may jam into the lands creating a very high pressure.
For a 50gr bullet the normal oal should be about 2.30" You should start at about .005 to .010" off the lands. Try a few loads and then reduce or increase the oal by .005" and see how that affect the accuracy of the load.
Dave

Bob, Jim gave you some fine advice.

In general you adjust charge weight first, OAL seconds.

With a box of 20, I typically load 5 different loads, 4 rounds per load. It fits nice in the box, and the 4th round provides a margin for operator or chronograph errors.

I would add that the OAL length you calculated works for that particular bullet only. The OAL length will change if you start loading other bullets with a different nose shape like a Partition or Game King.

.3 is good for variance with a small load like 35 gr or so. If you get into the larger calibers like a 30-06, .5 gr is more like it and for the really big ones like RUM's then 1 gr variance.

Jim C.<>< says,

quote:

Your starting OAL at some 19 to 24 thou off the lands is also fine. After you find the best charge weight you should experiment in seating steps by maybe 5 per step, in and out, until you find the best OAL for that charge and bullet.

The problem with setting bullets by OAL is that very few bullets are all the same length. I assume you are measuring from head to tip of the bullet? That's the problem. Measuring is best done from the ogive to the base. Sinclair makes a little hexagonal tool for this. It's called a bullet comparator. You measure each bullet from base to ogive in the thing. That way, you get all your bullets being equal in the only measurement you can actually measure with any certainty, ± 0.001 inches. The thing is cheap at about seventeen bucks. They are made for .172 up to .308, then a second one for larger bullets above those two diameters.



The above shows a .224 bullet having an ogive measurement of .375 inches. What you do now is segregate all your bullets having the same measurements into piles and when you load them, they'll all have the same measurement from head to ogive. Bullets made on different machines will have different ogive-to-head measurements. This little tool helps you get as much consistency as you can from from your bullets. Me, I just weigh mine. You can't have two competing criteria for segregating bullets. I suppose you could, but you'd end up with maybe three or four identical ones in a 100-count box. The holes in the comparator are made with throating reamers to best simulate the throat in a barrel.

Homebrewer
Now you have done gone and used a "thingy".
That may rile up the anti-thingy group!

+1 on measuring off the ogive.

muck

quote:

Originally posted by muck:

That may rile up the anti-thingy group!

muck

To Where it's Really Hot All the Time with them.

Thanks guy, I figured I was doing all right, maybe more than necessary. I figured trying two 5 shot groups of each load but you are right. If it isn't going to shoot you don't need that many to figure it out. I will do that with this batch because they are loaded...but from now on just 5 of each load should be fine.

bob

Bob B, shredding the mouth of a case to make it look like a squid is an option, I prefer to maintain bullet hold/neck tension, I drill the flash hole/primer pocket out to a diameter that will accommodate a cleaning rod/wood dowel, the hole allows me to seat a bullet, chamber the test case and push the bullet out against the lands for determining COL (case overall length), this works for a particular bullet, when drilling the flash holes I modify at least 10 cases for different bullets. Once I have pushed the bullet out against the lands I leave it out, the modified case becomes a transfer when setting up the seater die, this method saves money as an alternative to purchasing tools that are just nice to have.

The seater plug in the top of the seater die has threads measured in threads per inch, something reloaders have trouble with, I use the dial caliper to ''0' the height of the stem using the modified case as a standard/transfer. Again I leave the bullet in the modified case for setting up the seater die, some seater dies use a 1/4-28 thread, others use a 1/2 20 thread, when keeping up with two thought at the same time the micrometer uses 20 threads per inch without an index unless it is a competition type seating die, so to avoid the expense, I use the dial caliper as a height gage.

COL, case overall length, I do not have my mind made up, I prefer my bullets get a running start, I understand I can seat the bullet out against the lands as an option but it is not a good ideal to seat the bullet out with max. loads, nor is it a good ideal to back the bullet up into the case.

F. Guffey

Bob R.

Sorry about that,

F. Guffey

Well, I finally got out today to shoot my loads and see how they do. Some did good, some did not so good, one did exceptional, or so I thought.

I was using Nosler BT 55g over a load of Varget, lit off by a BR2 primer and seated so that I had .224 in of bullet in the case (OAL 2.440).

I had loads all the way from 35gr and worked up in .3gr increments up to 36.5gr.

The one I ended up using gave me an avg velocity of 3740fps.

It was taking a very long time to get the shots at the 100yd line with people sighting in for hunting season also. I needed to sight the scope in so I went to the 200yd line after just a few on the 100 yd line.

Once I shot that one I knew I had found the load, but I still shot a few more but all they did was open up a little and give a little more speed. Like someone said, you will know with the first 3 shots whether or not it is a keeper.

I like this reloading thing, a lot. I am thinking of tweaking the load just a little bit (by .1gr for a total of .2grain up and down from the load I shot) up and down. Because I started out at .3 grain increments I don't know if that would be beneficial or not.

This is what I got with the load I am thinking about playing with. This was shot @ 200 yds off of a rest. I think it could be better, but maybe I am thinking too much.



Thanks to everyone who posted along the way.

bob

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
Jim C.<>< says,

quote:

Your starting OAL at some 19 to 24 thou off the lands is also fine. After you find the best charge weight you should experiment in seating steps by maybe 5 per step, in and out, until you find the best OAL for that charge and bullet.

The problem with setting bullets by OAL is that very few bullets are all the same length. I assume you are measuring from head to tip of the bullet? That's the problem. Measuring is best done from the ogive to the base. Sinclair makes a little hexagonal tool for this. It's called a bullet comparator. You measure each bullet from base to ogive in the thing. That way, you get all your bullets being equal in the only measurement you can actually measure with any certainty, ± 0.001 inches. The thing is cheap at about seventeen bucks. They are made for .172 up to .308, then a second one for larger bullets above those two diameters.



The above shows a .224 bullet having an ogive measurement of .375 inches. What you do now is segregate all your bullets having the same measurements into piles and when you load them, they'll all have the same measurement from head to ogive. Bullets made on different machines will have different ogive-to-head measurements. This little tool helps you get as much consistency as you can from from your bullets. Me, I just weigh mine. You can't have two competing criteria for segregating bullets. I suppose you could, but you'd end up with maybe three or four identical ones in a 100-count box. The holes in the comparator are made with throating reamers to best simulate the throat in a barrel.

Brewer, you need to add another thingy to the boat tail to get the bearing surface measurment.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

Brewer, you need to add another thingy to the boat tail to get the bearing surface measurement.

I ain't worried 'bout that. Ain't nothin' what can be done 'bout that...

Thats cool, but it's how I group my boat tails. Sorta ogive to ogive or whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Thats cool, but it's how I group my boat tails. Sorta ogive-to-ogive or whatever.

I'm confused. My philosophy is to get all the bullets with the same base-to-ogive measurement in one pile. That way when I seat the bullet, they will all seat into the case to the same point, resulting in loaded shells that all have the same ogive-to-head measurement-- which will have the bullets all setting back from the lands by the same amount. The need to separate by bearing length is lost on me...

I like to separate all of mine just for consistency. The boat tail gives me a measuring datum so I use it as such.

If you used flat based bullets, you wouldn't have that bother.

True, but I cant get them to sit strait.

Doesn't Bob R have his caliper set incorrectly for measuring that group, and the group size is smaller than what it shows?

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Rohrer:

Doesn't Bob R have his caliper set incorrectly for measuring that group, and the group size is smaller than what it shows?

I think you are correct. I would have measured across the holes at 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock. How I do it is to use a circle template to draw a circle around the whole group, then subtract the bullet diameter.

I just wanted a rough measurment of the group and to see what type of MOA I was getting. I figure close to 0.5MOA with this particular load. I am debating on whether to play with it some more or not. Presently it is more than adequate for minute of coyote and rockchuck.

Measuring across the widest spread and then subtracting the diameter of the bullet gives me a group of 1.011 inches.

I was thinking of moving the charges up and down a touch and seeing if I could shrink the groups a little bit more. I have always considered the 22-250 capable of exceptional accuracy.

bob

I just want to share with the anti thingy group. Most of this isn’t necessary for short range (under 600 yard) but it is interesting. You can start with sorting your bullets by base to ogive length using the Sinclair Bullet Sorting Stand or comparators prior to trimming. You can also re point and uniform your bullets. One tool is the Whidden Pointing Die System is designed to profile the tips of jacketed bullets to reduce drag and improve BC. Testing has shown that shooters will see pointed bullets shoot three fourths to 1 MOA flatter at 1000 yards, with wind drift improvement of about 5 percent. Light meplat trim after pointing produces the maximum possible BC consistency. I don’t know anyone that is that concerned with constancy……
By the way that isn't a bad 200yd groop.
Bill

quote:

Light meplat trim after pointing produces the maximum possible BC consistency.

I do that...

quote:

Originally posted by Bob R:
I was thinking of moving the charges up and down a touch and seeing if I could shrink the groups a little bit more. I have always considered the 22-250 capable of exceptional accuracy.bob

You should be able to get the group size to <.5MOA. I am using Varget (2nd choice: 4064) with a 55gr. Hornady Vmax. With 36gr. (or possibly 36.5; my load data book is downstairs in Der Fuhrerbunker) of Varget, I am getting <.5MOA.

How I measure a group is to find the two bullet holes farther away from each other, then measure from the outside of the first hole to the inside of the second hole. This method automatically subtracts the bullet diameter.