Hi folks

I fall into the moderate velocity good accuracy group as that fits in with all my European and African hunting. Never had a deer not drop with a 7mm @ 2600 fps shot at 225 yds. I use the chrono during load development to check steady velocity progression.
I was working up a load for my 375 H+H with 220 gn FP's betwen 2450 and 2750 and ended up with a stray shot looking like a flyer however the chrono showed a velocity peak with that cartridge, the shots after that progressed in a steady fashion. Field testing the velocity at 50 -300 yds is my favourite way to establish a drop chart, the chrono is a boys toy but fun to play with.
Regards

Mark

quote:

Dutch: well, I'll be...... I actually whole-heartedly agree with Hot-Core. The end must be near....... LOL!

Me, too. Likely had to do with the fact the word "pressure" wasn't anywhere in it...


Jaywalker

Here is a situation that involves accuracy and velocity but on the other end of velocity. Last year I shot a blue wildebeest in south africa. The gun I was using was a 510 GNR from Gary Reeder. The load I was using was H4227 powder a WLP primer and a 435 gr Cast Performance bullet. The mv chronographed between 1250 and 1300 fps. The shot was at a measured 95 yards. The bullet went through both shoulders and exited the animal. The wildeeest ran about 40 yards and piled up. When I got home I ran the ballistics on the computer and at 95 yards the bullet was travelling 950fps at impact. Strange isnt it. Lol. I just believe good shot placement as well as good bullets is what it takes to bring down animals not the fastest magnum people can buy.

My humble opinion

Two things I loved reading here; back to the still and you can hunt longer with the wind at your back. Thanks guys!

I've found my chrony both depressing and useful, enlightening and eye opening. It's made my loads more consistant velocity and accuracy wise by choosing powders that have good even SD's, which has improved the accuracy of my loads across a temperature range. It made me sell the under performing 7mm mag and appreciate my .257 Roberts a ton more, my .25-06 languishes now, the Roberts is that good. It's also made my 8x57 better appreciated and relegated the "need" for a fast 8 or .33 to the trash heap.

It's a tool and if you learn what it'll tell you instead of what you want it to tell you they are great.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:

quote:

Dutch: well, I'll be...... I actually whole-heartedly agree with Hot-Core. The end must be near....... LOL!

Me, too. ...

You two are digging yourselves into a hole that will be hard to get out of and here is why:

You are "implying" that you all rarely agree with old Hot Core(aka me).

Anyone reading that stuff will then know you must be "Totally WRONG" about 99.95% of the time.

Jaywalker

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Many years ago, I had lunch with Jim Carmichael, and he said, "Never chonograph your favorite load".

Terry,

while I have always liked a lot of Jim Carmichaels writings.. I have to disagree with that...

the very last thing I do, is chronograph a load....so that I have an idea of the trajectory the bullet will take....

but evidently unlike a lot of other guys on the forum, I shoot a load for both accuracy and a lot of time include reduced recoil with that...
better shot placement to me, when someone doesn't worry about recoil...

I zero all of my rifles at 3.5 inches high at 100 yds....with a lowly speed of 2250 MV, any spitzer bullet will be dead on at 200 yds at that velocity and 3.5 inches low at about 235 to 240 yds....

and once again..." yada yada yada... 95% of all deer are taken with 100 yds or less...." so I don't need a 500 yd load with 3500 to 4000 ft lbs at the Muzzle to take a deer at 100 to 200 yds...regardless of size of the deer!

So once I find an accurate load that a particular rifle likes... I chronograph it and see how much further that I can stretch that 240 yd point blank range... normally it isn't very far, even if the load is at 3000 fps at the muzzle...

2250 to 2400 fps at the Muzzle usually will reduce recoil about 40 % or better over a 3000 fps MV load... plus most regular bullets will actually penetrate deeper and open up better at these velocities......

and seafire isn't toting no scope with a 50 mm objective on it either, or the upper magnification being in the 14 to 20 range....

a 4 or 6 power work just fine....

you varmint shoot a lot all summer, come deer season, after shooting pop can sized critters on 6 and 8 power at 200 to 300 yds, a deer looks like the size of a dump truck at 250 yds even thru a 4 power scope...

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
What I have been saying all along! If it shoots fast AND is accurate, fine. If it shoots fast and you can't hit sh#* with it but a slower load shoots good, why in the world would you keep loading for faster bullets? Get over the phobia of speed and shoot what hits where aimed. Throw the Chrony in a drawer. Amazing how many guys have killed a zillion animals with a load and then find it is not as fast as they thought and all of a sudden it is not good enough to hunt with. Well, duuuuh, didn't it work before? Did your brain turn to mush because the bullet is 200 fps slower then you thought? Damned animals have radar guns to check up on you dudes, not fast enough and they laugh at you.
Reminds me of my varmint hunting days with a 220 Swift. I used a 60 gr Hornady. No, it could not EVER reach over 4000 fps but I head shot a few thousand chucks out WAY past 600 yd's with the load. Some of you would not be happy with my velocity but it shot 5 shots into 1/4" at 350 yd's and I never missed with it unless I shot at something too close. I used another gun (.222) for shots from 100 to 300 yd's. Up to 100 yd's, I used a .44 mag revolver. Kind of stupid to shoot close with a 220 swift! Kind of stupid to use a 7mm or 300 mag under 200 yd's for anything unless it is big, tough, dangerous and you have a heavy tough bullet.
The 270 and 280 are the best rifles for all around use from close to out of sight ranges for most hunters.
I killed several deer with my 6.5 Swedish and it was very, very impressive for being as slow as it is. But it was way too easy so I keep it in the safe now. It is just not needed, I could never imagine needing some magnum rifle.

5 shots in 1/4" at 350 yards?????????????????????????????

Amazing simply amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes!!!, My wife would point out the hole after I shot each one and retreat over a railroad bank. She kept pointing to the same hole and I was getting very angry. No way I said. After 5 shots I walked down prepared to ask what she was looking at. They were all there in a tiny ragged little hole that measured 1/4" center to center. My Rem .222 would do the same at 250 yd's.
I don't think barrels have improved today. I have never found any new gun that will equal them. Scopes don't seem to be as good either. The old B&L scopes with external mount adjustments and the B&L Balvar 6x24 can not be equaled with any new scope.
I have had old lever guns and pump guns that would outshoot 100% of the new bolt actions. My old 25-20 Marlin could keep all shots in 3/4" at 100 yd's with cast boolits. My 1919 6.5x55 Swedish will shoot 1/2" groups all day with a pitted barrel.
Sorry but gunmaking has not gotten better, it has gotten cheaper. I sorely miss the old guns.

I find the crhonograph to be a very worthy tool.Yes I get the velocities of each and every load during a work up, but it is more than that.
Each powder we use, regardless of the type will only work within the specified pressure range for which it was designed. I don't give a damn whether it is Bullseye ot 50BMG, it will only work within it's designed pressure range. using a good chronograph and a decent micrometer, one can use the pair to determine if a load is too hot for the individual rifle or if you can go on and try another grain of powder.
A good example. Rifle, a 30-06, 22" barrel, bullet 180 gr. A loading manual says 45.0 gr. of powder X gives 2500 FPS and the max load of 50.0 gr. gives 2700. let's say your rifle gives 2540 FPS with the starting load, 2610 FPS with 46.0 gr., 2700 FPS with 47.0 gr. 2755 FPS with 48.0 gr. and 2650 FPS with 49.0 gr. What's wrong witht hat picture? More powder, yet less velocity? HOLY SMOKE! What's going on here. Simple, you have passed the working pressure range for that particular powder in YOUR RIFLE.
As a matter of fact, the first two velocities ar from my own personal notes. When attempting to use the 48.0 gr. load, primer pockets were greatly expanded and the primers just fell out. Velocity also spiked in this case to almost 2900 FPS, another sign that I was past the working level of that cannister of powder.
Years ago, when I first started reloading ammo, I worked up to that 49.0 gr. load of "Powder X". I was safe and it pushed a 150 gr. Sierra bullet fast enough to kill deer nicely, although it did mangle up a lot of good eating meat. No available chronographs way back then. A while back, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to load some of my old pet load up and see just what they did do. A locked up bolt and primer pocket hole big enough to park a Hummer in. The fault was all mine. I should have started from the beginning all over again. Case head measurements also verified that pressures were way out of line.
I do agree that velocity is not the only issue here. What if you have a rifle that will only shoot a decent group at a lesser, but usable velocity. I'm sure there are some here that would say, dump the rifle, get rid of it etc. Well, I have such a rifle, a Ruger 77 RSI, the one with the Mannlicher stock. Fussiest damned gun I ever owned. Almost a one trick pony. It's most accurate load is the 180 gr. Sierra round nose and second best is the 165 gr. Speer Hot-core at 2550 FPS from it's 18.5" barrel. It will do 2610 FPS from a 22" barrel FWIW. I made the second longest shot on a deer that I have ever taken with that rather slow load, 250 yards laser measured. The bullet hit the deer head on and penetrated all the way to a back leg bone, coming to rest as it broke the bone. It retained 65 percent of it's weight. Using a Speer ballistic chart and a little extrapolation, I estimate that bullet was maybe at 30-30 muzzle velocity when it hit that deer. The deer went bang/flop. I ran some Speer Nitrex ammo over the chronograph and it too recorded neer 2550 FPS from that rifle and gouped to the same POI as my handload.
I belive the chronograph is more useful for other reasons that just checking bullet speed for the reasons above. It's kept me out of trouble so far, so I see no reason to change my way of working up loads.
Paul B.

Some folks tend to think that accuracy and speed are related. Actually they are but it's not necessarily the hottest load that is most accurate.
I'll gladly trade 100 of even 200 fps for a load that will 'cloverleaf' the first three shots.
Since all guns are individuals, I use my chron to compare my loads against published loads, after gleaning all I can about accuracy indications by those who preceded me.
But since I load a half dozen wildcats, for some of which load data is pretty scarce, I can't imagine doing load development without a chron.
I still shudder at the thought of my first chron "awakening": the book listed 70 gr 6/284 loads I had "developed" way back then w/o a chron turned out be doing over 4000 fps. No wonder they were so loud (not to mention the loose primer pockets)!