Hi all, I have just started to reload for my 458 win mag.
Dies are the Lee type in a red cylinder (3 dies, shell holder and scoop).
Brass is winchester.
Bullets are .458 woodleys PP.
I have a concern with the seating of the bullet in that it seems to slide down the one side of the case as it is being seated, giving the brass on the one side a slight step or bulge. It is as if the bullet is seating off centre or axis.
Feeding a firing is still ok but I cant help but think this is not right.
Are these dies rubbish? At $40 have I got what I paid for? I also notice that with a dented case mouth the sizing die does not give the case mouth a good clean circle.
I have not loaded a straight walled belted cartridge before, but I have not noticed this sort of seating or case mouth issue with my 416 or 9.3.
Also of interest The instructions that came with the Lee dies show a bullet requrement of .457 where as the woodies are a true .458????
Thanks in advance

Stu

Sorry if I am a bit slow in reply but home service is down at the moment so all replys will be from work.
Cheers
Stu

size them a little less

use a case mouth expander

bevel the case mouth a bit

size, then rotate halfway, size again

one or more of the above will help; this is not uncommon with 45-70, any brand of dies.

I load the big brother of the 458 Win. Mag., the 458 Lott, with Woodleighs; they're pretty much my favorite bullet. The proper diameter is 0.458 in. but a 1,000th of an inch either way doesn't hurt anything as long as all the bullets are the same.

First of all, you don't have to ram the case all the way into the die. It's OK if you don't resize every last bit of it. If you ram the case all the way into the die, all you do is make it so you have to apply more force in seating the bullet to re-expand it which contributes to the eccentric seating problem.

The third die is to expand the mouth of the case enough after resizing to accept a bullet. Only bell the case enough so a bullet just barely starts into the mouth of the case. Chamfering the mouth is also a good idea for easy seating. Also, belling the case mouth will give you a good clean circle.

I use a lot of Lee dies; they're not junk though I've come to like some other brands a bit better. I think doing the above will amelioriate the eccentric bullet seating.

Many thanks delloro and Grumulkin. It is fantastic to be able to tap into this sort of advice so quickly, also thanks to AR.
Can you folks tell me, is the lack of a neck sizing die in the full length sizing die typical of the Lee package (with the addition of the case expander) or is this set up the norm with all banded straight wall cases?
Regards

Stu

I am not familiar with neck sizers for straight-walled cases. on any DGR caliber, full-length sizing is a must. the cartridge simply must chamber as reliably as possible - and neck sizing does not get you there.

Understood delloro, I wonder if I am explaining my self correctly. The 'neck sizer' I mention is the ball like metal that enters the case on the downward pull of the press and causes a creaking noise and stickyness if the inside of the neck has not been lubed properly.
Is it the case that the straight walled cartridges dies do not have this feature?
Best Regards
Stu

For straight walled cartridges, it's standard to have a full length sizing die, an expander die to bell the case mouth and a seating die. Neck sizing dies, per se, aren't supplied.

The ball you're referring to is the expander ball. The die sizes the case down a bit too much and on the way out, the ball expands the case to the proper diameter.

If you use carbide sizing dies with straight walled cartridges, in the smaller ones you need no lube and in the larger ones like the 458 Win. Mag. you need very little lube. You should not need to lube the inside of the case at all with carbide dies. As for lube, go with Imperial Sizing Wax which is by far the least messy and the best.

As for not full length sizing, think about this. Since the head of a case fits in a shell holder, one can never full length size a case all the way to the head without using a special die which hardly anyone has. Also, if you don't want to full length size a case and back the die off a bit, you are limited in the amount you back off by the need for the decapping pin to work; if you back off too much, you won't deprime the case. That means that at most, in a straight walled case if you back the die off, it will be only about 1/8 inch of the case or less that isn't sized. Percentage wise that isn't much in a case the size of a 458 Win. Mag. and I've never had a problem with feeding in doing this.

Thanks Grumulkin, food for thought.
I will tinker around with all suggested methods and see which works the best for me.
Cheers
Stu

From what you described it is possible that your die and shell holder are not in line.There are many possible causes for this: Crud in the shell holder grove or under the shell holder , burr on shell holder--- you know the drill.Also there may be too much slpoe in the seating die allowing the bullet to slightly cock. roger

stuey,I have a 458 that I just shoot cast bullets in mostly.Have shot afew 1 inch groups at 100 meters.The bullets I have been using both cast and jacketed are .457.

Bartsche, I thought this may have been a possible cause. There is a bit too much slop in the shell holder for my liking. To counter this I had been just getting the bullet into the case, then turning it a 1/4 then some more pressure then turning it another 1/4 etc until the bullet is seated to correct length. Some end up being better than others???
I will now try to use the case expander as suggested and see if this helps.
Incidently I am using 72 grains of 2206H, which is similar to the A2203 some guys use. It requires a very small amount of compression when seating the bullet to the canular. Do you think if the powder is not sitting with a really flat surface in the case, that a bevelled powder mass may cause the bullet to seat off centre of axis?
8x63 thanks for the reply. In this instance I really want to get these woodleighs 100% as it will be my load for an upcomming cape buff hunt.
My rifle has a 3 shot mag and I am having trouble closing the bolt over these 3 rounds whilst trying for a 4th in the chamber. The bolt seems to catch right where the 'bulge' is on the cases.
Regards
Stu

I`ve seen a slight bulge from the bullet base on straight walled handgun ammo I`ve loaded and blamed it on the sizer taking the case down below bullet diameter and the bullet expanding the case back up. The little bit of variation in bulge on one side of the case or the other I "think" is do to wall thickness not being uniform.
This is just a hunch on my part. You might try measuring the case wall and noteing the thinner side, then seeing if the bulge appears there or at random.

You could try crimping and seating in two processes. Seat the bullet and then crimp to it and see if the bulge goes away. Then you know that your die is so up wrong. Could your press be flexing??

Ol' Joe, certainly worth considering. I will take to some shot cases and check. Though the process of firing may have changed the wall??
Pegleg, I have not crimped as yet, I am not confident crimping with a sizing die and was going to buy a crimp die proper. Do you have any tips for me and I may try with the sizing die?
I dont think I am getting any flex with the press. My press is one of the large cast Lee presses in the 'O' shape, so unless the piston is bent I dont think so.
Do you think I have set the sizing die wrong?
Regards
Stu

What I would try, if you have a factory round, is put the factory round in the shell holder and run it to the top of the stroke. Then with the bullet seater stem screwed out, screw the die down to the factory round where the crimp portion of the die is meeting the crimp on the factory round. Then screw the seater stem down to the bullet. Remove the factory round and try one of your reloads and see if the die matches up to that. You might have to tweek things a little but it will get you close to where you should be. You know, it could be that your die might be screwed up. Sometimes that is the case. That's one of the things that helped Mike at Northfork make his decission to hang it up. His new dies (bullet making dies) he had made were not in spec to his requirements. Plus the long hours! It happens.

Hey Pegleg, sorry for the late reply.
Much appreciated.
Incidentley I took the said rifle to the range on the weekend. Accuracy is bloody good and feeding no probs. If I can get the crimp sorted out then all the better.
Regards
Stu