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posted 20 December 2019 00:44 I have recently started weight sorting my brass. I have a question for you who do this regularly. Here is some sorting data for a sample of Hornaday 204 Ruger brass. I don't remember whether its from 3 or 4 lot numbers. Weight(gr) Number 92.5 > 92.9.....11 93.0 > 93.5.....35 93.5 > 93.9.....18 94.0 > 94.4.....20 94.5 > 94.9.....4 95.0............1 95.8............1 The difference between 92.5 gr and 94.9 gr is only 2.5% or from 92.5 gr and 94.4 gr is only 2.0%. Are those weights close enough that I could use the same powder weight with a 39 gr bullet for my loads and expect reasonable precision for prairie dog shooting? Thank you in advance for your help. Carl | ||
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Yes, in fact sorting brass is a waste of time on a varmint rifle, and questionable at the bench rest, so much of this stuff is to impress your friends, the rockchucks have yet to notice. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I think you are wrong Ray. For absolute accuracy, one needs to eliminate as many variables as one can. I have a bench rest rifle, which is more accurate than any of us can shoot. I select everything for it to be as close as one can get. I weigh the brass, the bullets. I have shot groups with it that basically I cannot measure. For normal rifles this is really immaterial. But as a general rule, we buy our brass in bulk. Size, trim, uniform the primer pockets and flash holes. Then we segregate each 100 by weight. These are used for different rifles. Does this help? No idea. But it is part of our preparations. | |||
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c.tenn, Just pitch the outliers. for example, anything below 93 and anything above 94.4 Also you need to consider the variance from the mid point. Your mid point is now 93.7 and the 93 and 94.4 are less than a 1% variance from that. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I can't see a hunting situation where it makes any difference. You MAY see some difference on a target when the variation is great as Saeed pointed out but for hunting, no. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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I weighed some brass once a few decades ago and quickly gave up because for hunting, (even prairie dogs) you can't tell the difference. Benchrest; yes. | |||
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Thank you | |||
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Thank you Mike | |||
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Thanks | |||
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here is another way to look at it. where IS the weight from. did you trim them to length? did it cut all of the cases or just scrape one side of a mouth? did you make one more swirl with the champher tool? one more time around with the pocket cutter? is there a little flash hole burr? grease from your fingers? have you done none of that yet? all of your weights are gonna change when you do. | |||
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The cases were precision prepped, ultra sonic washed and dried. | |||
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As I posted in another thread here on Accurate that sorting by internal volume is a much better thing to do then weighing cases....as Lamar pointed out. | |||
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This is exactly how I feel about it as well because in the end, this is what we really want to know! A few years ago I decided to take fired .223 brass and fill it with ball powder, then weigh the charge. As it turned out, in order for the powder weight to change .1 grain, the case had to be .3 grains, either heavier or lighter. IMHO segregating cases by less than .1 grains of powder capacity is nuts unless you really need that kind of precision, and some people might, but, segregating cases by .1 grain in weight would be a waste of time even with a small case like the .223. | |||
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Thanks for your post. You get a more precise volume with a liquid. A friend of mine deep into this uses alcohol because it dries up and you don't have water in your case. He was going to make an apparatus for measuring the volume, but it never materialized. Most of us don't want to mess with a liquid, but you only have to do it one. I'll tell you how anal some guys are about this. One guy I heard of takes his 308 cases and expand them out to a straight cylinder. Then he lathe turns them to exact wall thicknesses consistent through out the whole batch, then forms them back. Yes he's aware of hardening and anneals them. I don't know of his success ratio though. | |||
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Load up a few with the lightest to the heaviest and see if you can tell the difference. Its gonna depend alot on the accuracy of the rifle AND the shooter. I have a 204 that shoots one hole groups and is not that picky with the brass as long as I shoot the same brand and prep the same. Might save you alot of trouble. God Bless, Louis | |||
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If we take bullets, the most inconsistent in weight that I have ever experienced were the Winchester Black Talon. 140 grain, 270 caliber, box of 25, the weight difference was almost 5 grains! Funny enough, they were the most inaccurate hunting bullets I have ever used. I did hunt with them. But those were weighed from many boxes, and the accuracy certainly was much better. | |||
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More normally these more apparent with, but you can observe it with hunting grade rifles such as you did. I once had a sporter 243 Win rifle that shot 1/4 inch groups with the Hornady 100 grain round noses that I used for deer hunting. They were off in weight by up to 2 grains yet they shot really good. BTW Hornday quit making the round nose. Different weights in rifle cast bullet shooting even in standard hunting rifles shows up much!!!! | |||
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No reason to have finger grease on your cases when those disposable food gloves are so easy to get; esp. when you're handling cases or loaded ammo for the last time. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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The thing to do is take a fired case with the primer still in it, set it on a scale/balance and tare it to zero 0.00. Add liquid until it's FULL and there is a convex meniscus present. Record the weight of the liquid in the case. Lather, rinse and repeat with another case. No need to know the volume of liquid as the weight will suffice. The 90% isopropyl alcohol will work best if you want to use an alcohol liquid. For new brass you will need a supply of spent primers. I would suggest to seat those backward, since they will likely have inconsistent volumes if seated the normal way. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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I am also struggling with this weighing of cases. I agree that the aim is to eliminate variable, but then when you trim cases and you debur them you cannot take away all the same amount of brass. So what would be acceptable variance for general shooting - 2gr, 4gr or 6gr? Obviously it is better to measure the inside volume of each case but that is too much time consuming. | |||
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The big trouble with liquid is the air bubbles inside the case. Don't know if alcohol forms bubbles or not. I do know water sure does. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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Saeed, I can only report what Ive tested and I got nowhere in actual firing, in fact I found powder weight seldom changed anything, nor bullet weight, all these things when tested didn't change any thing I tested when I got to the bench...but I was not shooting a bench rest gun under bench rest conditions, and as a matter of fact my testing got so confusing that I just gave up..I ask some benchresters and got different opinnions from all of them.. Bottom line is I don't need the above for rock chucks or pinheads, I saw absolutely no difference..IMO it was so slight that changes in barrel heat, trigger pull, human error could , were such that testing was difficult at best..Im not saying that all the varibles are a bad thing, and they can't hurt, but is it worth it on a varmint or hunting rifle, and even some bench rest guns that are winning consistently. The only true way to test would be to remove each Varible, one at a time and test fire, that might be better way to test, just remove the varibles that are claimed to work, but I'll leave that up to you.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Starting with new cases, the amount of brass removed from deburring the flash holes and turning the necks should be inconsequential. New cases shouldn't need trimmed. No point in prepping brass that's been fired 5 times, IMO. I'd take a few cases from the max weight and some from the minimum weight and do the liquid fill thing with those. No point in doing all 100 cases if that's what you have. You should get a good idea of case capacity difference from doing a few of each. You can decide from testing those few if it's of any benefit. Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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Well said!! I tried weighing brass 20 yrs back saw no difference in my world.   | |||
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My last all-out reloads resulted in no difference for either bullet sorting or case sorting when I did a test using a rifle shooting 3/4 inch groups. Barrel was dry-brushed after each group. Sorted cases and bullets weighing within .2 grains shot the same POI as the unsorted for the same 5 shot groups at similar temperature & humidity. But, ponder this, "stacking". While some fine adjustments alone seem to be immeasurable, all fine adjustments added together could & most likely will be significant. Plus, to rule something out is a good thing. It takes away that "I wonder if I should" factor. Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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