Hi there!
Just wondering what you all think about neck-only resizing for a factory (not custom or benchrest) rifle. Is it worth doing? Does it cause any problems? What have your experiences with it been?
Thanks!

for targets it ok, hunting i would want them fl resized, especially dangerous game.
If you do just neck size i would check each one and make sure the all chambered easy.
dave

I neck size every gun I reload for (12) and the trim and FL about every 3-4 time.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
for targets it ok, hunting i would want them fl resized, especially dangerous game.
If you do just neck size i would check each one and make sure the all chambered easy.
dave

Dave,

way too many people endlessly (some of them mindlessly repeat this as "gospel" according to ? hell, I don't know, but for Dangerous Game Rifles I was once told that someone who goes into the field "dangerous game hunting" who has NOT cycled ALL their cartridges through the action to positively verify that the shells do indeed fit DESERVES to get kicked,scratched, stomped AND bit by whatever creature or creatures they encounter.

So neck sizing causing cartridges to not fit the chamber? this is EASILY determined by trying them...

Of course it's easy to remove the striker assembly from most bolt action rifle's bolt so that an accidental discharge is IMPOSSIBLE while doing this testing.

AD

Hey Gaillo

Neck sizing for factory chambers is possible and can be advantageous. You will have to do more than just neck sizing when the cases get harder to chamber.

The first thing to do when you want to reload some fired cases is to get your gun out and chamber a few of the fired cases. If they chamber easily then you can neck size. If they cause the bolt to bind a little when chambering then you need to take the next step and Partial Full Length Resize or Full Length Resize.

Usually you can neck size for 2 to 4 reloads before you have to body size also, depending upon your gun, load and brass.

I purchased a Ruger #1 7x57 a while back.
Had an oversized but concentric chamber.
I can fire it 6 times before the case even hints at needing full length resizeing.
I don't know how long the cases will last as some have been reloaded 12 times as we speak.
Neck sizeing along with removeing the 50 lbs (no exaggeration) of forend tip upward pressure made tremendous improvements in accuracy .

The only rounds I full length size every time are fired in semi auto rifles.

If I had elephants in the back yard I might have a different opinion , but cases are getting too expensive to wear out prematurely.

Covey16

It works for me.
It's been so long since I've bought any store bought ammo except .22 that I don't even know what's available. I do know a kid came over for me to sight in his rifle and had a box of .270 ammo that he had paid $30 for. $30 for a 100# WVA WT deer?? Wow.
Brass that is 1X will usually chamber as easily as virgin brass and that is what I like to use for hunting. 1X. It's a little more accurate and maybe it just makes me feel better. But anyway. even if I'm just going up behind the house to hunt, all the ammo I'm gonna be using has been cycled thru the rifle to make sure it fits EASILY into the chamber.

I have one box of .375 H&H that has been used exclusively for shooting cast bullets that I have loaded ver 20 times. The brass was once fired xso the next four loads I neck sized the brass. Then, I annealled the necks and did a full length resize. Then for the next four loadings, I neck sized the brass. Then, another anneal and full length size and so one. Just because I'm shootin cast bullets doesn't mean that the load was a wimpy one. Quite the contrary. It's a 270 gr. bullet at a bit over 2200 FPS fired in a Ruger #1H.
Paul B.

For any kind of hunting I HATE any ammo that has even a hint of extra bolt tension when closing the bolt. I like my ammo to have about .001-.002 shoulder bump.

It's a proven fact that the less you work harden the brass, the longer case life you will get.

I neck size but only with Lee's collet sizing die. No need for lube either. Slipping each one into a max cartridge gauge proves a correct fit.

Like was said before, I would never neck size when going after any dangerous game. Only once fired, full length sized ammo for that task.

quote:

Originally posted by Gaillo:
Hi there!
Just wondering what you all think about neck-only resizing for a factory (not custom or benchrest) rifle. Is it worth doing?

Hey Gaillo, For some strange unexplainable reason(s), it seems different kinds of Resizing work better for some folks and not as well for others.

quote:

Does it cause any problems?

Just as "hivelosity" said, anytime you will be Hunting in Dangerous Game country, you should be using FLRed ammo. A minor bit of slop in the chamber is nice to have if for some reason a small piece of Trash enters the Chamber during rechambering. That has the potential to cause a jammed Cartridge at the worst possible time. This has NOTHING to do about seeing if the Cartridges fit in the Chamber and all to do about reducing the chances of a Jam.

quote:

What have your experiences with it been?

In my rifles, NS just isn't as accurate as a snug fitting P-FLRed cartridge. I rerun a Blind Test every five years or so and so far P-FLR has been the most accurate.

However, folks like Woods have a regular routine they use which works the best for them.

So, all the Methods work, you just have to try them and see what works the best for your Hunting conditions and which provides the best accuracy for you.

Best of luck to you.

Neck sizeing works just fine in factory chambers, so does partial full sizeing. The main improvement of neck sized brass is longer case life IMO. The use of Lee "Collet dies" adds not lubeing to the plus side. I don`t see any gain in accuracy over FL or P-FL sized brass and to be honest not much gain in case life over P-FL brass.

I once loaded 30-06 brass 12X`s with a stiff load of 59gr IMR4350 under a 150 gr bullet (max load - be sure to work up) and NEVER needed to trim a case useing the collet die. I also never FL sized a case while doing this, and had no trouble chambering a round as some have had. I wouldn`t swear you`ll not need FL/body dies but, I do believe you will find you can load over 4-5 X`s and not miss them.
P-FL sizeing IMO is preferable to neck sizeing for hunting ammo and is probably the better way to go for this purpose. The snugger chamber fit helps with case life and the little bit of case wall sizeing helps chambering. This is what I use for all my hunting loads no matter the cartridge.

BTW; I toss brass after 10-12 loads just "because" for my own peace of mind, no matter the cartridge. I am sure they will last longer but, I have no desire to anneal or otherwise have to worry about the condition of my cases. They are cheap enough and I can afford it IMO. The only brass I`d possibly keep longer would be a case for a discontinued cartridge that was no longer available

quote:

Originally posted by Gaillo:
Hi there!
Just wondering what you all think about neck-only resizing for a factory (not custom or benchrest) rifle. Is it worth doing? Does it cause any problems? What have your experiences with it been?
Thanks!

I do "partial full-length resizing" of cases that are going to be used again in the same rifle they were just fired in. I size about "one bullet diameter's worth" of the case neck from the mouth toward the shoulder. This is for brass that will still go into the rifle chamber and permit the bolt to be closed w/o application of a 5-pound hammer!

For cases that have grown too large for relatively easy rechambering in the gun, or will be used in a different rifle that won't accept them as they now are, of course they'll be resized as much as needed to chamber relatively easily in the gun they're to be fired in next time. I only resize them as much as needed for chambering, on the theory that the less you work the brass, the longer it will last.

I have found that reloads using partially resized cases are at least asd accurate as ones that were neck-sized only.

If you think about it, it is obvious that a case that was fired in a given rifle, then has about 1/3 of the neck sized down to hold the new bullet, has the remaining 2/3 of the neck still as big around as the chamber neck. This perfectly centers the bullet-containing portion case neck in the rifle's chamber neck. A bullet cannot get a straighter start into the rifling than this!

Hello again!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
If you think about it, it is obvious that a case that was fired in a given rifle, then has about 1/3 of the neck sized down to hold the new bullet, has the remaining 2/3 of the neck still as big around as the chamber neck. This perfectly centers the bullet-containing portion case neck in the rifle's chamber neck. A bullet cannot get a straighter start into the rifling than this!

That's the problem... I really HAVE thought about it, and I can't seem to figure out whether the "full chamber" expanded brass centers the bullet better than a "floating" cartridge that is smaller than the chamber. I'm REALLY interested in getting the true data, even if I have to load a bunch of both variations myself!

El Deguello has it right. Some folks resize the entire neck and slightly bump the shoulders. BUT if your will resize less than the entire neck a collar will form where the neck meets the shoulder. Then the cartridge is supported by the chamber sized rear of the cartidge and the leade sized donut at the base of the neck and the bullet is headed right down the bore.
After several firings like this you will need to FL resize the case and start over but it is very accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by Gaillo:
I'm REALLY interested in getting the true data, even if I have to load a bunch of both variations myself!

Best of luck. But it's not all that simple.
Some experts on AR may get better accuracy with partial neck sizing only, but then you might consider case neck thickness/evenness, run-out, and other nasty stuff.
A mate got better accuracy with FLS'ed cases because, as he said, the die would hold the case neck centred better.

And I've got better accuracy with damned rattleing loose factory ammo than with my best hand loads. (Sometimes.)

You could say the benchresters tend to necksize for accuracy, but, what else do they do as well.

After trial and error I just PFLS and so only have one type of reload. The projectile has always been my biggest difference in accuracy.

I have head that the foster neck sizing die is capeable of shoulder bumping and partial neck sizing in one opperation. This seems to be a good setup.

Yes, this is from the Forster site

quote:

With Precision Plusâ„¢ Bushing Bump Sizing Dies, you get a die and a three-bushing set designed to improve the accuracy of your cartridges. In one simple step, the case neck's outside diameter and headspace length are resized. This one-step bushing neck reduction/bump shoulder operation keeps your case neck in better alignment with the case's center line.

Developed with input from some of the world's most discriminating reloaders, Forster's exclusive design is unique. It's easy to adjust and use. Best of all, it prevents overworking the necks and allows you to control the amount of neck tension for your bullet seating operation.

The bushing is adjustable to allow you to partially or totally resize your case necks to an exact diameter. Partial neck length resizing can assist in alignment, since the unsized section of the neck better aligns a previously fire-formed cartridge in the rifle chamber.

The only problem is I have had bad experiences with the bushing type dies and runout. I just might have to try one though.

I have had good luck creating the same scenario with the Lee Collet Neck Sizer and a washer on top of the shell holder



and low runout.

I have been unable to document any increased accuracy because of the unsize portion of the neck....yet.

I would be interested in any input from someone who has one of the Forster dies, not from any accuracy or shooting perspective, but from a - how much runout and how easy are they to use standpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by Gaillo:
...I can't seem to figure out whether the "full chamber" expanded brass centers the bullet better than a "floating" cartridge that is smaller than the chamber.

Hey Gaillo, There should be some cut-away Chamber drawings in one of your Reloading Manuals. If not, then you should be able to Google one up.

Here is "why" I believe P-FLR is the most accurate:
When the Case is properly P-FLRed for a "snug fit" as the Bolt closes on a Bolt action rifle, the CenterLine of the Cartridge is Forced to be closer to the CenterLine of the Chamber. This is because the Cartridge is held in a slight state of Compression between the Bolt Face and Chamber Shoulder, thus Forcing the CenterLine alignments.

In a FLRed Case:
The Cartridge is Forced to one side of the Chamber in a Push Feed Design by the Ejector(skewed) and in a Controlled Feed Design it simply lays on the bottom of the Chamber(skewed). That means the CenterLines of the FLRed Cartridge and the Chamber are not in their closest alignment.

In a Neck Sized Case:
The Case position is normally similar to FLRing(skewed). Leaving a bit of Un-Sized Neck has the potential to help a bit with the CenterLine alignment, but just not as good as P-FLRing.

As the NSed Case continues to be shot and reloaded, it eventually becomes a snug fit when chambered. When that happens, the CenterLines are now closer to being aligned and the NSed groups shot which are shot at this stage are smaller than those shot after the Shoulder has been "Bumped Back". Not every shooter can see this small difference on the Target.

quote:

I'm REALLY interested in getting the true data, even if I have to load a bunch of both variations myself!

I'd strongly encourage you to do this. Even though P-FLRing works the best for me, that does not mean it will work the best for everyone.

Best of luck to you.

I have (factory and otherwise) barrels which like really tight fitting cases (as in neck sized), and I have barrels which like loose (as in new or (P)FL sized) cases.

It is beyond me why this difference?? So I try it and see...

I like neck sizing because it cuts down on case stretch in the sizing operation. I like (P)FL sizing because it allows my cases to chamber and extract more smoothly.

You choose....

- mike

That picture Woods posted of the partial neck size is exactly what you get when you follow what Eldeguello outlined.
If you will get you FL die set up to FL resize and then get a washer or piece of flat stock about the thickness of a dime or even a nickel and put it around the threaded portion of the die between the press and the lock nut on the die you will end up with a collar around the neck of the cartridge exactly like the one pictured. Often, depending on the taper of the case, the die will not touch the case and you will in effect be neck sizing not P/FL sizing. Of course, why spend a dime for a washer, when you can spend $40.00 for a die.
As far as all of the other "what ifs", I'm gonna say that P/FL resizing or neck sizing like I mentioned above with a FL die has improved my accuracy in factory rifles in every case.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Often, depending on the taper of the case, the die will not touch the case and you will in effect be neck sizing not P/FL sizing.

"Often" will depend on the dimensions of chambers vs. dies and as well as exact die adjustment. I would propose that "just as often", your FL die will partially size (the walls of) your case, even when set up for "neck sizing". In turn, this could lead to your shoulder being pushed forward during the sizing operation, and thus cases becoming harder to chamber. In this case, a true NS (e.g. Lee Collet or Redding Comp Bushing) die would seem the better tool for the job.

- mike

Dunno as I have never owned a neck sizing die. The way I described works for me.
It's a technique taken from some of the older reloading manuals that were published before they decided "why tell them that when we can sell three dies instead of two by saying that neck sizing is the straight road to Jeruselum."

If it works for you, that is all that matters. There always seem to be more ways than one to skin a cat in reloading...

- mike

Actually....you just have to try it in your gun. A year back I did some experiments with different brass in a fussy 300 wby ultralight. This gun shot almost any load terrible at 300 yds. Then I discovered retumbo and the 180 tsx was a magic combo. From there I tried neck sizing, Fl sizing, partial neck sizing (as desribed above with the so called "self centered" base of the neck). MY RESULT IN MY GUN???? My gun liked any load that was prepped with hornady brass. No matter how I prepped any of the brass (rem, wby, or norma)...my gun liked hornady brass and it didn't matter how it was sized. Go figure....and I mean that....go figure what your gun likes. Since the fanciest case prep methods don't make a diff for this gun....I will make sure it is fl sized but with the shoulder bumped about .002 for ultr-reliable chambering.