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| <Tunacan> |
Can someone please help me explain these groups. Is this what people call "vertical stringing" Any ideas as to what is going on? Loose screws? Thanks <br> | ||
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one of us |
I've seen this with: 1. A bedding problem. Maybe too much forend pressure on the barrel. Most light barrels like a little (5 or 6 pounds, I've heard) of up pressure. 2. Improper bench technique. Is the forend resting at exactly the same place on the bags each time? 3. Inconsistent ignition. Try a change of primers. Loose screws will generally give a more scattered (side to side as well as up and down) group. Yours are pretty good, excellent actually, from side to side. If you can correct the vertical stringing, that should be one fine shooting firearm. You'll probably get a bunch of other opinions; let us know what fixes it. R-WEST ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
I've seen this with bullets my gun didn't like. I've seen this with loads that were at max. in my gun. Perhaps another bullet/load will prove better. I have also seen this with lighter than normal bullets in my guns. Isn't a 110 gr. a light bullet for the 7mm? You may want to go to a heavier bullet. I'm no expert, just my two cents. | |||
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| <Don Krakenberger> |
I too would not rule out trying a different powder combo with the same bullet. A couple yrs ago I loads 2 batches of 100 grain hornady's for a friends .243. I think the sierra accuracy load in the gun shot vertical stringing and then a slower powder calmed the group into a tight round cluster. I was surprised that powder could make vertical stringing but in that gun it certainly did. | ||
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| <MNTNMAN> |
I HAD a scope that would jump up in elev. every shot. I don't have that scope any more. | ||
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one of us |
I'd look at your bag-technique first, as well. Is you swivel stud hanging up? Shoulder same distance from the butt. The only other time Ihave seen this was when I had some brass that was too thick in the neck on some, but not all cases. Pressure swung VERY wildly, and groups like yours resulted. Of course, it could also be inconsistent ignition. especially with the light bullets you are shooting. If your neck tension is good, try switching primers, or apply a light crimp with a Lee die. You may be popping the bullet loose with the primer on some shots, but not all. HTH, Dutch. | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
I see bedding woes,with the obvious finger being pointed towards fore end pressure. A consistent hold would help(probably),but I'd fully examine bedding............... | ||
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| <Bruce Gordon> |
Something you might try to see if it is a problem with stock fit would be to shoot one shot, wait until the barrel is cool to the touch (about 30 minutes), shoot another shot, etc, etc. If the group does not show the same vertical stringing, you should look real hard at the bedding. I was also wondering if the shots start at the bottom and "walk" vertically with each shot? One of my rifles did that and the way I narrowed it down was to do the cold barrel shooting to verify it was not a problem with the load or shooting technique. | ||
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| <TGWoody> |
quote: How far is the target? TGW | ||
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| <10point> |
If ammo, and others, are ruled out I see a bad bedding. A scope screw problem would probably throw a flyer way off to the Horizontal and Vertical..........10........oop's already said......... [This message has been edited by 10point (edited 01-26-2002).] | ||
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| <Martindog> |
How fast are you shooting? Vertical is often attributed to the barrel heating up. If it's bedded with foreend tip pressure, this heat can change the bedding properties. Before you go whittling away and/or slapping glass everywhere, try waiting a couple of minutes in between shots and see if the vertical is eliminated. Martindog | ||
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| <Tunacan> |
My barrel was not heating up. It was cold outside, so heating was almost eliminated. These groups were at 100yards for the post previous. Would a fouled barrel cause stringing vertically? | ||
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| <PaulS> |
Tunacan, As stated earlier many things can cause vertical strings. One that has not been mentioned (specifically) is changing the pressure of the butt of the stock against your shoulder. To eliminate this as a cause try placing a sand bag between your shoulder and the gun and leave a quarter of an inch between the butt and sand bag while the bag rests against your shoulder. The short free recoil should allow for less difference from one shot to the other. As stated earlier, improper bedding, forestock tension, and scope problems are all possibilities. Just eliminate one at a time until the list is used up or groups improve - the one that affects your group is probably your cause. PaulS ------------------ | ||
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| <2ndaryexplosioneffect> |
OK, guys try this.... <http://home.swbell.net/jmh4/250_sideways.jpg> ------------------ | ||
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| <2ndaryexplosioneffect> |
Try again, <img src=http://home.swbell.net/jmh4/250_sideways.jpg> ------------------ | ||
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| <Drifty> |
2ndaryexplosioneffect Only time I have seen holes like those was when the bullets were destabilized by shooting through some small twigs before hitting the target. Maybe there is some damage to the crown of the barrel. That could destabilize the bullet from the git-go. [This message has been edited by Drifty (edited 01-26-2002).] [This message has been edited by Drifty (edited 01-26-2002).] | ||
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| <bigcountry> |
Had the same problem on some 700BDL's with the pressure point in the front. Looks like bedding problem. Before I pillar bedded and free floated the barrel, I would have to wait 15 min. in between shots to get to group. | ||
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| <DuaneinND> |
How cold was it, and was it real still? Have seen shooters have a problem with the mirage from barrel heat on cool days, it is so slight that it is easily overlooked. | ||
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| one of us |
is the barrel free floated all the way? Do the dollar bill thing between the fore arm and the barrel. Try some heavier bullets. try a biz card shim (or two if needed) between the fore arm and the barrel about 2 inches from the front end of the stock. for a little up pressure.(like on a remington) Is the rifle consistantly stringing? Are the pix representative of at least 10 groups? | |||
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| <Gunner> |
If you are shooting prone or leaning forward aggressively on the bench, could be breathing... What's the overall size of the groups represented? Looks like three rounds in nearly the same hole, well under .5" - if you're getting that group at 100 yards plus I'm not sure there's much more mechanical accuracy you can expect from a hunting rifle. The Steyr SBS is supposed to be completely free floated, can you check (using the dollar bill technique) to see if the barrel is clear of the stock? Just a couple of thoughts - hope they help... Regards, Kevin | ||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
Before you mess with a gun. Have two other shooters that you think are pretty good try it. Just part of the elimination process. ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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one of us |
Mike Dettorre, I agree with you. And I'll add check all cartridges before shooting in order to avoid crimping problems, or others... ------------------ | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
Well,I'll step out of the box again and take the heat. It is HIS rifle. He needs to correct the problem,to meet his standards. I see a mechanical problem,rather than an Operator issue. What I see is a pretty good job of rifle control,as horizontal disperion is minimal(1/2MOA or less). Vertical like this,tells me the rifle isn't happy mechanically. That could be attributed to several reasons. Typically,when I see this,it is stock/bedding issue. My guess is,the barrel has a form of pressure pad up front(I'm not familiar,with the particular rifle,so that is speculation on my part). Or is falsely free-floated. Certainly,all stocks flex somewhat,but there are ways to combat this,to avoid the above illustrated haphazard results. Float it well enough,so that the stock can't contact the barrel,when shot in the manner you favor. If it is in fact floated now,determine that the clearance precludes fore end pressure on the barrel,when rested. If the stock is a noodle,with much flex,I'd not consider floating it. I'd full length bed it,to promote rigidity. Or increase upward pressure,to sort of preload the stock/barrel. Tinfoil is an easy way,to rapidly alter shim material thickness and it will allow a good evaluation,in prompt fashion. Shim with several different thicknesses and see if groups become rounded. If the rifle is that fickle,to string vertically in such a repeated manner,you can bet the farm it is a stock/bedding issue. See what the stock/barrel prefers and bed accordingly.................. | ||
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| <+P> |
Tuncan If i�m not total wrong the Pro Hunter it is a shim pressure paded rifle, the shim is fitted in a slot in the forestock, and I think it�s preatty easy to take it out and try if that�s the problem . God luck. Anders �sterberg | ||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
My suggestion of having another person shoot the rifle is based on research methodolgy and efficiency. What if somebody else shoots the rifle and a nice five shot 2/3 inch cluster appears 3 times in row. I would certainly want to know that before I started messing with bedding, forend pressure, different powders etc. ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| one of us |
Had exactly the same problem with a '96 Swede. Turned out to be a variation on a theme already mentioned: I had made sure the barrel did not touch the stock, except at the forward barrel band, which was putting downward pressure on the barrel. A little work with a Dremel tool on the inside of the front band relieved the pressure, and now it shoots nice round groups. | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
Mike, I savvy your thoughts. My contention is simple. That would be perfect,if the guy that shot those now respectable groups,was the owner of the rifle. Or if the rifle's owner wanted him to fill his tags,for him. My point is,you can mechanically alter a rifle,to suit an individual. If the stock is allowing that dispersion,with his shooting technique,simply fix the stock,so that phenomenon is no longer a factor. Some guys shoot with a deft touch,other use a more firm grasp,that from all positions and makeshift rests. Physique and ergonomics are factors,as well. The technique largely doesn't matter(within reason,of course),if you can make YOUR rifle,make YOU happy. Something that fickle,can be easily fixed. I'd opt to fix it,to suit my style and wishes. Confidence is of the utmost importance. I like to instill that,in every rifle I field. Your mileage may vary............... | ||
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| <Don Krakenberger> |
We should all send a dollar with "1" guess. Winners take the pot!! PLease let us know when you find it!! Wow--horizontal is SO GOOD if you get vertical under that kind of control someone here is going to try and buy that gun!!! Actually I've dreamed a little of that same gun!!--They have a different look and it appeals to me! Good luck--d kraky | ||
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| <Reloader66> |
Both those loads your listing are hot, not a good practice. Is your barrel free floating? Are you sure the barrel is not touching the front rest when testing these loads? Are you certain the bases and rings are snug and not moving. They must be tight but not to tight. How fast are you shooting these groups, because a hunting weight barrel heating up will cause the same effect. Try shooting a group with a five minute wait between shots. Many times shooting a sporter weight barrel to fast causes stringing and poor group performance. There are several powders the 7MM-08 likes, Rel-15, H-414, BLC#2, W 748, IMR 4895. Also do not exceed your maximum load listed in your reloading book. Find a powder that gives good accuracy in the midrange loads. | ||
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| <2ndaryexplosioneffect> |
Vertical stinging, The only time I have had a problem with shots stringing in this manor was caused by the barrel heating up and slightly �warping� from the heat. Test to see if your barrel is �walking�. Shoot one shot every 5 minutes. Time it. Test is best done in cool weather. Take the time to go down range and mark each hole with a number. If shot number 2-3-4- is higher than shot number one, your barrel probably has a pressure point under the barrel close to the front sling swivel. Remove the wood under the barrel until you can get a dolor bill to pass freely between the barrel and the wood. I have also found if you use a $100 bill you can get a gun that shoots and a date for the evening depending on the makeup of the crew around the shooting benches. The jpg of a target I tried to post in my previous message was from excessive velocity. (sorry the kids back in college and I can�t figure out how to do it) Anyway the super thin jackets were melting from the high velocity and the bullets were coming apart right at 100 yards. Just FYI and makes a neat target anyway. Shoot safe, | ||
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