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This problem is puzzling me. I check my empty cases in my gun they chamber like butter after resizeing them some not all are hard to close bolt. Why do they get worse after running them through resizeing die.The farther I turn the die it to bump the shoulder the worse it gets. I did have this happen the other day same brass with my rcbs dies and old Herters press but didn't give it much thought but know I no something is wrong. It is winchester brass. Worst thing I am useing my new press & dies that I recived to day it's a Co-Ax and forster BR dies. If it makes a differents it a 222 Rem. | ||
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Check your case length. | |||
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Are you trimming them? How many times have you fired these cases? Sounds like excessive length to me... Reloader-1 | |||
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It has been shot 2 to 3 times I have checked length & trimed to minimum with no success. What buggs me is if I use my Lee collett die it work fine. Could both my full leignth sizer dies be bad. My forster is new today. | |||
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quote:Hey BossMoss, I've got some good news for you, nothing is wrong with any of your Dies. First off, you are correct that you will not experience this situation with the Lee Collet Die because it isn't "resizing" the walls of the case. Knowing now that you are trimming your cases to spec, the "percieved problem" is that you are actually "Partially-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) the cases. Your Full Length Die(s) (RCBS and Foster) just isn't screwed into the press quite far enough. Here is what's happening. As you resize a case with your RCBS or Foster FL Die, it not only resizes the neck, but it also resizes the case walls from the Pressure Ring up to the shoulder. As the wall is "squeezed" to the smaller diameter, that causes the case to lengthen, or move the Case-Shoulder forward. So, your previously Fireformed case is l-o-n-g-e-r which can be a good thing if done properly. The Case head is tight against the Bolt face and the Case shoulder is tight against the Chamber shoulder. Loosen the Locknut on the RCBS or Foster FL Die and screw it into the press another 1/8 turn then retighten the Locknut. Relube a case, resize(P-FLR) it, wipe the Lube off the case and try it in the chamber. Repeat this in 1/8 turn increments until the Bolt closes on the empty P-FLRed case with just a bit of resistance. Now you have "Zero Headspace" and a better chance of getting the BEST accuracy possible from your rifle. | |||
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Hot Core Thanks I owe you one you were right on. I thought I was folling the directions to turn die down till it tuches the shell plate. But as you said just a couple little turns and presto it worked. | |||
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Hey BossMoss, The other guys were on the right track too. We needed to know about the "trimming" before we could narrow it down to the real issue. I've messed with Neck Sizing and find it slightly less accurate than the P-FLR method. This is because having the case slightly compressed in the chamber causes the CenterLine of the case to align closer to the CenterLine of the chamber. No doubt that Neck Sizing is quicker, but when I reload, I don't do it as a Speed Event. | |||
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Hot Core, When you neck sized, did you size the whole neck? Did you get poor results partial neck sizing them if you did that too? Like you said, I almost couldn't get the shoulder back far enough with my 300 Ultra die to chamber either. It was hard on the shell holder before it barely would, fist time that ever happened to me too. I got some Redding S dies to get away from it all. Your post makes sense so I wondered if you partial sized the necks as I planned on for the same reason you stated. | |||
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quote:Hey Brent, I've tried Neck Sizing the Neck 50% and 100%. It would be misleading to say I got poor results partial neck sizing. It is more concise to say I tend to get a "slightly smaller Average" with P-FLRed cases. The reason for this seems to be that when you Neck Size, the case lays on the bottom of the Chamber, not in the "center" of the Chamber. Therefore, it is skewed. So, it doesn't really seem to matter if the Neck Sizing is 50% or 100%(from what I see). However, I'd strongly encourage you to prove it to yourself. Load 15-18 cases P-FLRed and another 15-18 Neck Sized(either way you prefer). Shoot all 15-18 of one type at a Single Target. And then compare the groups. Use the most accurate rifle/load combination you have. Just this past summer I did it with a very accurate 223Rem and may have shot 20 total Targets with 18 shot combined groups. It is important to "call" a shot you "might" have pulled. And it is important(for me) to go s-l-o-w when doing this. My concentration is not as good as it used to be. If the wind comes up, I stop shooting and restart later on. ... Concerning your 300RUM Die, there may be a slight mismatch with your "Shellholder". Measure the overall Shellholder height, knock a few thousandths off the top of it with a big Bastard File and you will "probably" be able to P-FLR perfectly. Don't file on the Die. This slight mismatch can happen when the Shelholder and Die Set are from the same manufacturer, but is more often seen when they are from two different companies. ... Thanks for letting me know it made some sense to you. Good luck to you when you try it. Now, there is no doubt at all that Neck Sizing can be faster if no lube is applied. But, speed-reloading is not something I do. And the difference I see between the two methods is small, but I do see it in "my" groups. [ 01-04-2003, 02:47: Message edited by: Hot Core ] | |||
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Brent this is BossMoss & I was the topic starter I did as hot core said & I had to go shoot today just to see for myself I only had 7 rounds loaded but it was the best the gun has shot for me & have had it for a year. I spent most of one year trying to size as little as possiable with only fair results I am a beleaver. I think with a custom barrel & tight chamber you may be able to just neck size and get away with it & improve accurey. With factory barrels just keep it simple and it will most likly shoot well. Hot Core Thanks Again it was fun drilling one hole today. | |||
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Very nice BossMoss, glad you got that figured out. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} I posted a something similar I found on the other thread in gunsmithing of yours and then seen Hot Core got you on track over here already. I'm using a Dillon 550 so the shellplate is a bit tougher to thin down. It just barely works. I have a Body die I got with my type S neck set but haven't checked it out yet. Most of the ones I've loaded for are able to be backed off at least 1/2 turn to get the shoulder back after working it forward. A fireformed case should acomplish the same thing and with only sizing the neck 2/3 of the way leaving the neck tight too. I'll do as Hot Core suggests and compare the results. [ 01-04-2003, 08:58: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ] | |||
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Hot Core, I'm new to reloading and trying to glean as much info as I can from these posts. Be patient with me while I try to figure out what it is you are talking about here. First, I'm using a Rockchucker press. The instructions with the press says to screw the sizer die in until it touches the the shell holder then screw it in another 1/4 turn. This is full-length resizing, correct? With "partially-full length resizing" you are taking once-fired brass and running almost all the way into a full-length die. Am I correct here? Assuming that I am, you are trying to "squish" the case sides and make it longer from the base to the shoulder. By not running it in all the way, you are trying to not push the shoulder back. I think I am on so far, if not correct me, please! Two more questions. I'm guessing at this point that I don't want my die to touch the shell holder. How far off the holder do I want to back the die out? Using this "P-FLR" method, does the neck get properly sized without stuffing the case all the way into the die? I hope this made sense and wasn't too long but your info was very interesting to me. Feel free to reply to my email if you would like. Thanks | |||
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The instructions with the press says to screw the sizer die in until it touches the the shell holder then screw it in another 1/4 turn. This is full-length resizing, correct? True. With "partially-full length resizing" you are taking once-fired brass and running almost all the way into a full-length die. Am I correct here? True... sometimes. Sometimes the die body is not squeezing the case enough to push the shoulder up enough to make it tight to chamber this is only because the die and the chamber match closely. Usually this is not the case though and the shoulder is forced forward because the brass has to go somewhere. By not running it in all the way, you are trying to not push the shoulder back. You are not trying to push it back... too far anyway, just enough so the round chambers. That leaves zero headspace, no slop between boltface and casehead and chamber shoulder and case shoulder. I'm guessing at this point that I don't want my die to touch the shell holder. Depends, but likely not. How far off the holder do I want to back the die out? Using this "P-FLR" method Back the die off a turn from where it contacts the shellholder. Size a case and see if it chambers. If it does back off another turn or so until the next one doesn't. If it doesn't screw it down 1/8 turn at a time untill the case JUST chambers. You can tell when the shoulder is being held snug against the chamber by the feel of the bolt. You may have to back it out a 1/16 turn to bring it right up close if the last 1/8 turn went too far. Check a few cases now. When you get it where you want it, lossen the lock ring, not letting you die turn, and runa case up in it to the top to center the die up. Tighten the lockring now and your done. Using this "P-FLR" method, does the neck get properly sized without stuffing the case all the way into the die? Very much so. More than it needs to really. I hope that helps, I don't think I'm too far from what Hot Core does but he can let you know where I strayed. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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BossMoss go to this link for more info on squaring Dies http://www.sierrabullets.com/xring/index.cfm?fuseaction=Vol1no2#loadtip HTH Rick | |||
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Hey SH00T TO K1LL, Brent covered your questions just right. Hey Brent, Thank you. Hey BossMoss, Glad to hear you had such good luck. Sometimes it takes a "few" groups for me to see a marked difference, but it seems like it is always there. And there will probably still be folks who have better luck Neck Sizing. No argument with them from me. Use what works the best for you. | |||
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Awesome, thanks. I may actually figure this out one day. | |||
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