Gentlemen:

I have a wildcat---.20 Hornet Improved. I want to try small pistol primers [rather than small rifle]. I've heard the small pistol primer gives more consistent accuracy. Is there any downside to using this primer rather than the small rifle? I presume it has adequate strength, ignition capabilities, etc.

Thanks,

Jordan

Small pistol primers are softer. They do work in the hornet case. Try using CCI SP Bench Rest primers. They produce good accuracy with 2400 296 and Lil'gun powders. I have a Browning Micro 22 Hornet that is absolutely amazing with 35 -40 V-Max. Also with the Hornet, keep it clean, at least my gun likes 1 foul shot before going to work.
Regards,
Tacksmacker

Jordan,

My 22 K-Hornet does a lot better job with small pistol primers, 2400 and a 40 grain Nosler BT than any other combination. In that diminutive case a small pistol primer is plenty of flash to ignite the powder, and it is consistent.

I've shot 2300 via a Contender carbine with that combination and never a problem.

Don Shearer

After a lot of experimenting, I use Winchester small pistol standard in my Hornet, when I use 2400. Every once in a while, I get pierced primers, but the accuracy is good. I use Winchester small rifle for my max load of Lil Gun. I first tried CCI and Fedral Bench Rest primers, but found them to be less accurate in my rifle.

DO NOT DO THIS

these are designed for pistol level pressures, not rifle.. this could lead to a pierced primer, releasing gases, putting your eye out, etc..

try CCI benchrest primers instead.

jeffe

I had read about all of the people using small pistol primers in .22 Hornets with great success and decided to try it myself. I won't ever do it again. I fired between 7 & 10 rounds and every primer cratered, none were completely pierced but some looked awful close. That was enough for me.

Jordan,
I've never had a problem with small pistol primers in my .22 Hornet reloads. As a matter of fact, I get best accuracy using Federal #100 small pistol primers. I've used H4227, H110, IMR4227, W296, AA1680, and Hodgdon's Lil'Gun, and bullets from 35 grains to 55 grains.
Hodgdons claims you can't fit enough Lil'Gun into a Hornet case to develop dangerously high pressures, and I agree with that. I've gotten best results with Lil'Gun in my Hornets.
I have, though, put together some W296 loads that were 'way too hot, but we're supposed to work up the loads slowly, aren't we?
Regards, George

Thanks gentlemen. I confess, I already have 'bout 200 rounds primed and I really don't want to deprime them, so I think I'll don the safety glasses and ear plugs and giver er a try!

Merry Christmas.

Jordan

Jordan

Go ahead and use the small pistol primers in the Hornet. I shoot around 2500-3000 22 Hornet rounds during the course of a summer. And never had a problem. BF Pistol for silhouette loaded with 8.6gr of H4227 and a WSP. Ruger #1 (for groundhogs) 13.4gr Lil GUN and a WSP. Just about any load you try in the Hornet case with small pistol primers should result in better accuracy. I do not know where some people get the idea that this practice is dangerous. One, they probably heard about it from someone else or have read some BS that some mis-informed gun writer had printed.

Guys,
IF he was just shooting a regular hornet (low pressure) i wouldn't care.. but he's shooting a 20 cal wildcat, that i'll assume it mean to get pretty high pressure off an "improved" hornet.

Man, you are braver than me... best of luck.. I would get a 20 cal collet bullet puler, empty the cases, pop the primers and start over.. but that's just me...

and, yeah, i have done perdactly this on 45LC. using 11 grains of unique, i bumped (hard) the thrower, and the next time I weighed the charge, i had 12... but my son was right behind me, seating bullets.. so, we tore them all down and started over.

jeffe

Just curious as to why necking a Hornet down to .20 caliber would raise the working pressure? I have a .22 Hornet and use the same powder and primers as George C. does and have had no problems. I'm going to switch to a .19 Calhoon as soon as funds permit which is the reason for the question about pressure. I'm no expert but it doesn't make sense that the working pressure would raise by changing the caliber?

Gentlemen:

I am back from the range and well, the results are inconclusive. I shot about 30 rounds. First, my loads are a too warm. I need to back them down. I do have significant primer cratering---but no pierced primers [yet!]. The primers seem to almost capsize in the center. I had one tough extraction. On milder loads [fireforming] the primers look normal.

I don't know how the small rifle primers would stack up with the same load. I'll find out in the next day or two. And let you know how each type of primer handles the same load, whether there is any difference in velocity and any difference in physical appearance.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Jordan

Jordan: Small pistol primers should normally crater at lower pressures than small rifle primers (small rifle primers being made to hold up in the 60,000+ psi range). BUT . . . the Hornet case is designed for pressures no higher than pistol primers are designed for, so any load which is too hot for pistol primers is also too hot for the thin and delicate Hornet case. Using pistol primers with loads that do not crater them is a good way to keep your Hornet cases from giving you an unexpected surprise with a hole blown in the web area (and potentially much more damaging than a pierced primer). Keep on using the pistol primers and keep your loads down where they don't crater.

Gents,
The hornet(in factory loads) is VERY mild and low pressure. Every reloader I know that does them jacks the pressure up, at least, to around 45k.. still safe in contenders NEF/HR, and most bolts. Necking it down has a reason, and that reason is usually high velocity. It will still be a HIGH pressure gun, and, as I said, he's having some problems.

the "case" was designed for blackpowder, just like 45/70 and 45LC.. and the modern cases (since, oh, 1930) will hold higher pressure.

If there was no difference, they would not sell 2 products. The small pistol primer is THINNER in the wall, to allow for the "less positive" strength of a pistols ignition system. This will create/allow the primer to be the weak(er) link.

jeffe

hmmmm... I was not aware the .22 Hornet case was designed for black powder... learn something every day.
I have used small pistol primers almost exclusively in my regular hornet loads with no ill effects. When I tried to really hotrod the regular hornet, I started getting cratered primers. I switched to the Rem 6 1/2 and have had no real problems there.
On my K-Hornet, my warmer loads with Lil Gun require a rifle primer to keep from cratering and puncturing primers. If I load more like warm regular hornet loads in the K case, I can use the small pistol primers... CCI seem to work the best, as they seem to have the toughest cups.
I have come to the conclusion that in MY hornet, cratered primers are not necessarily a sign of too much pressure. They are a sign of HIGH pressure, but not necessarily too much pressure. I look for other signs, like sticky extraction, or loose primer pockets.
I have had pretty good luck with AA1680 in my "regular" hornet loads.... but for sheer velocity, Lil Gun is the way to go. Pistol primers work well with the 1680, but Lil Gun needs the rifle variety... in my rifle.

....thanks for the welcome.... and the information... I'm always ready to learn something new... "it's better to know than to not know"......

I have a .22 K-Hornet rifle built on a Martini 310 Cadet action. I ran out of small rifle primers, and remembered reading about some guys using the small pistol primers and having good results, so I loaded about 20 or so rounds with the same powder and bullet...just using the small pistol primer.
Well, the primer was pierced on every shot. In this particular rifle, it was not too dangerous, but in another rifle....well to tell the truth....another rifle may not have pierced the primer, but if it did it could have been very dangerous.
It seems to me that the Winchester small pistol primers must be thinner skinned than the Winchester small rifle primers. It also appears that my Martini firing pin spring must hit harder than some of the other rifle firing pins out there.
Be careful. By the way, my K-Hornet really does like those 35 grain V-max bullets from Hornady. It shoots 10 shots into one ragged hole. I was greatly surprised. Must be the bullets, because everything else is the same. Now I really like the K-Hornet.
For those unfamiliar with the K-Hornet...it is an "improved" version of the Hornet. It's shoulders are blown out when the new ammo is fired. The case holds about 2 more grains of powder.

Auto:

What velocity are you getting with the 35 grain VMAX? What powder and barrel length?

I went to the range today and fired 10 rounds, primed with CCI small rifle and loaded with the same load which was capsizing the small pistol primers a few days earlier. I did not do a careful comparison of velocity, but my impression is there is no difference in velocity as between small rifle and small pistol.

My load appears to be a warm one for the small rifle as well. All primers were flat to the edge. Bolt lift was a tad sticky. I do note however that none of the small-rifle primers had the capsized or nearly pierced appearance of the small pistol primers.

It appears that if you load the Hornet real hot, at least an improved version, that the small pistol primer may be a little thinner in the cup and prone to rupture or piercing as compared to the small rifle. I base this only on ten rounds fired with small rifle primers compared with 30-40 of small pistol, virtuall all of which look all but pierced.

Jordan