Guys, I have been waiting patiently since around November '08 to see some of my usual sources (7 or 8) to order some small rifle primers. I am now at the point I only have about 600 left, and for me that would typically be about 2 or 3 more trips to the range, or 2 or 3 days of target/varmint shooting. that would mean I am out of small rifle ammo in a month to 6 weeks max.

When do you guys speculate it primers in general, and small rifle specifically would become available again? Has anyone seen any genuine information from the mfgs. that they are still producing at full pace? It's hard to believe that the 'hoarders' are continuing to obliterate the market availability.

For those of you that saw this cycle with the Clintonism, how long were components lacking in availability?

I'm becoming serously concerned that there is something more sinister behing this, I think I could make some gunpowder of some kind in a 'scorched earth' scenario, but I really would need to study on how to make a primer......no primers will put me out of reloading faster than anything I can think of as far as components......

At the Clinton peak I ordered 5000 primers from one of the well known mail order houses when they were advertised on sale at $88. They went on back order. Six months later they called and asked if I still wanted the primers at something like $112.

Hey Fish, I've found it helps to be a regular customer at a Gun Shop. A person who buys and trades a good bit. A person they recognize and invite you to the yearly BBQ.

I'm not suggesting a person get his head ripped off all the time on a buy or a trade, but simply let the Gun Shop make a living. If one of them seems to be way out of line on a trade, I do ask why we have such a difference of opinion and either see his point or I restart the process with a different Gun Shop.

Had a buddy plan a visit from out of state last year who was looking for a Taurus Judge. Everytime he went to his local Gun Shops they told him they either could not get a Judge, or they had just sold them - even though he had asked them to let him know when one came in.

I called my current "local Gun Shop" and asked if they could possibly help him out. The Owner told me he had a Stainless one(he knows me too well) that he was strongly considering keeping for himself(tradesman ship), but he would hang onto it for my buddy. And he reminded me to tell my buddy to get a copy of the FFL from the guy he wanted it shipped to, if they worked out a deal.

When my buddy arrived, the Gun Shop discounted his already excellent price(which was $100 below what my buddy's Gun Shop was asking) an additional $50 before he handed it to him. Then my buddy asked if he would consider a trade and that my buddy had a small 22LR semi-auto(aka Saturday Night Special), which I figured would get maybe $40. The Owner told him he could give him $100 on it as my buddy was handing it to him, because he would sell it in less than 3 days. Everyone was happy, I brought the Gun Shop additional business, my buddy got his Judge, the Gun Shop made a Sale and he also had a pistol which would move quickly.

At some point in the process, the astute Gun Shop will desire your repeat business over taking you to the cleaners on a single transaction. Then you are positioned properly to ask them to notify you when the Primers show up, and to save you X,000.
-----

However, it is possible for them to know you too well. If you get a call from a Gun Shop and you hear them say, "Bring your Trade bait and check book - I have something to show you!", and they won't tell you what it is, they know you too well.

stay with your local guy. he cares more about your business than does the big box store. Give it a bit and thing will return to normal, or as close as we get anymore. After all obama is going to save us all

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
After all obama is going to save us all

What Hot Core said!

Support the locals (who are probably your neighbors) and don't begrudge a man trying to make a living. It goes two ways and no one knows it better than the dealer.

My neighborhood guy called me two weeks ago to ask if I had any AR barrels or could score some for him!

Mark

Thanks Guys, but trust me, I subscribe to the let a guy make a living to a fault. The local shops, include a couple pretty sizable operations, can get virtually NO small rifle primers. They have kept me posted on some large rifle primers coming in from time to time, but so far I'm good with my supply on them, it's just that they can't get the small rifle primers.

The one guy who has offered to help me-- if I can get someone in Export (real name of town) PA to get them to me, has a few small rifle squirreled away for me....he is a guy I do a lot of business with on custom rifles and Sako stuff that my local guys can't get--and I never question his pricing, just pay and am confident of his service and quality.

I am really wanting to see this thing break, how long did it take in the Clinton shortage to have stuff available again???

I'll keep turning over stones--til I have to start throwing them!!!!

I agree also, support your locals. I know the local gun store owner since he bought the store. And the owner before him. Get to know em. The owner gives me credit along with a bunch of other customers.

quote:

how long did it take in the Clinton shortage to have stuff available again???

I've been thinking about that and SR4759's 6 months might be pretty close. But, we didn't have the military tossing bullets in two theaters back then. And it was before clinton/algore cut the military in half, but doubled the loafers on government payrolls.

For some reason, once the Primer shortage started back then, I believe it "might have been" two years before I saw Bricks of them piled up at the Gun Shops and Gun Shows. Which would have meant the demand had been satisfied.

quote:

Originally posted by kennedy:
I agree also, support your locals. I know the local gun store owner since he bought the store. And the owner before him. Get to know em. The owner gives me credit along with a bunch of other customers.

A solid history of spending money at the local shop exempts me from their 500 primer limit.

quote:

Support the locals

I agree but only if they fall into the positive category Hot Core described. I've seen too many local shops like what he described that aren't in the longterm relationship business. The ones that are just there to gouge, screw, or jack the local guy. And they aren't worth dealing with.

LWD

All these shortages should slow down after everyone slows down on their ammo purchases. All that RECORD ammo sales takes componants too.

I buy from a wholesaler who sells to the shops he has had SR on back order for 14 mo now he has not seen a one he stocks all flavors from Wolf to Rem.

During the great clinton primer shortage of 93 it was Sm Pistol primers this time it seems all primers are short but mainly Sm and Lg Rifle it took about a year and half during clinton to see a flow of primers and the price to go down.

HC, and Hunt-ducks, thanks for the info--

I may have to find an alternative for small rifle--when I see a post where a distributor has had orders in for 14 months, that scares the crap out of me. I'll keep searching, but frankly, if distributors can't get em, than I think my typical sources are gonna have a hard time as well.......something about this whole mess really stinks, I just can' believe knowing how much stuff a big factory can produce, that it is still just 'hoarding' that is the issue....I can't think there are that many newbies to the game of reloading due to Obamanizing, that are gobbling up ALL the primers and components.....geeeeeeeez!

fISH

I agree with the newbees in the game. but I also feel all the primer mfg are ammo mfg first and the run on ammo has been amazing, I have a friend that owns 2 guns a Kimber 1911 and a mini 30 he told me he shoots about 100- 200 rds a year right after the election he bought 1200 rds of 45's and 2500 rds of surplus 7.62x39 stuff, then again in Jan he went out to several gun shops and bought another 800 rds of 45's he said he could not find any 7.62

I think a lot of it is ammo shortage related. I have noticed there are a lot of .224 Sierra bullets (who doesn't make ammo), but there is a shortage of .224 Hornadys (who does manu. ammo.) The problem is that when you are running out and nobody has any, when they are available, you buy 10-20000 instead of 3000 adding to the problem. I have a gunsmith buddy who was looking for some SR primers, said he had 50000 LR primers, but hell he needs them to do his job.

HD and jstevens, thanks for the thoughts, it does make sense that ammo is produced before components as it is more profitable. I remember reading once where CCI 'always' kept reloading components available to the reloading community in a previous war or some such where components were not available from other mfgs. ---- I guess the threw in the towel this time around

I guess I will be a hoarder if I get a crack at 5000 to 10,000 small rifle primers for a half decent price!

I have started to see more and more primers showing up at some local dealers in recent weeks. They are still blowing out the door at a pretty fast rate and there are still times when the dealers don't have any in stock.

There are some local dealers that are trying to extract the maximum amount of money for the scarce rescource but there also dealers that are taking their standard markup so the new stock are not that much more expensive. The current prices just reflect the higher wholesale prices.

We may have hit the bottom of the shortage but it will take quite a while before all of the reloaders who want to stock up have all they want. On the other hand, if there is a major push by the administration on an assault weapons bill, then all bets are off and we are back in crisis mode.

It's supply and demand.
A lotta guys wait till they need primers and then go buy a few hundred. Most of em seemed to have waited till the boy king got into office with his court full of Jesters and then flipped out and decided it was time to stock up and there was a run on everything. Ain't the first time this has happened. In the famous words of Pogo the cartoon series of years ago "We have met the enemy and he is us"!
I talked to a friend at Hornady who said they are at maximum production (can't make em any faster) and also they are making the same money on their bullets they were several years ago. So if they aren't sticking it to ya who is? Demand goes up, can't get enough supplies so ya raise your prices, people keep buying em so the mail order houses and the locals too make hay while they can. We know this drill from the oil companies.
When everyone quits freaking out and demand slows down the supply will pick up and hopefully the wait till your out before you go shopping group will shop the sales and stock up so this don't happen to em again.
I learned my lesson during the Clinton reign of terror. I shoot to much to be at the tail end of the longest line. Just stocked up slowly over the years till this crap don't effect me.
I am truly sorry for those unable to make arrangements for the future though who won't be partaking of their hobby till things catch up but I do believe they will catch up eventually. Probably this fall when the varmint hunters go to ice fishing or snow machining or whatever they do when they ain't burning copious quantities of ammo on rodents.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
... I remember reading once where CCI 'always' kept reloading components available to the reloading community in a previous war or some such where components were not available from other mfgs. ---- I guess the threw in the towel this time around ...

Back then CCI only manufactured 22RimFires and Primers. Now they are owned by a company that also manufactures ammo. Higher profit items do get a bit of an advantage.