the thread about 3 shot vs. 5 shot groups got me pondering other lines of thought.

One of those is this. I have certain rifles that, within reason, with just about any appropriate powder and bullet, they seem to shoot quite well. These rifles are keepers. Has this been your experience also?

I posted a few pix of groups shot with my Sako Varmint in 260 rem.
Here are a few more with different powders and bullets. These groups were shot consecutively in descending order during the course of one morning. All are three shot groups, all at 100 yds. Scope set at 9x.
Notes
the first group is out of a clean barrel.
The first and last group are my current "go to load, being 130 gr. accubonds over 43 gr. of H414, 2.900 oal Fed 210m primers.
The next 9 pix are of three different load densites of H4831SC, using three different 140 gr. bullets. All of these had same OAL at 2.870"
The third group was adjusted for zero. This adjustment caused the last 130 gr accubond group to have a point of impact about 1" higher than the first 130 gr. group.
All groups shot with 140 gr. bullets have almost the same point of impact despite being different load densities and bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I have certain rifles that, within reason, with just about any appropriate powder and bullet, they seem to shoot quite well. These rifles are keepers. Has this been your experience also?

Picking out the basic question of your post - yes, that's been my experience too.

I've been doing a lot more shooting at the range in the last year or so. With this new-found experience, I need to go through all my rifles again, and test old conclusions, and develope new data.

The rifles I have fall into basically three catagories. 1. As you described - basiclly no challange to get them to shoot well, consistantly. 2. Shoot well with a little load development. and 3. Still not yet satisfactory, but can't tell if it's the rifle or I jsut haven't found the load yet. The latter could be for sale, unless the action is a good donor.

KB

Nice groups.

quote:

One of those is this. I have certain rifles that, within reason, with just about any appropriate powder and bullet, they seem to shoot quite well. These rifles are keepers. Has this been your experience also?

Yes I have had the same experience, unfortunately it seems to happen WAY too frequently, and I have no more slots in the safe. LOL

I know that when I sit down behind most any of them that if the first shot is off, I muffed things. If the second shot is also off, then I put them up.

I like to piddle with a load occasionally, but when I am done, I know it is good and will hit where it should repeatedly. It might take ma a year of shooting it off and on, but this is only verifying it in different conditions. I rarely switch away from something that does what it is supposed to.

Only accurate rifles are interesting and I won't keep one which doesn't group 5 shots under MOA, regardless of caliber. To illustrate my words :


Custom Ruger .308 Win with Lothar Walther match bbl.


FN-Browning CCS25 O/U 9,3x74R (50 m)


K31 7,5x55


Blaser R93 .222 Rem


Blaser R93 .300 Win Mag


Blaser R93 9,3x62


Sauer 202 .30-06


Sauer 202 7x64


Rem. 700 Sendero .300 Win Mag


Rem 700 Police in AICS stock .308 Win

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
I have certain rifles that, within reason, with just about any appropriate powder and bullet, they seem to shoot quite well. These rifles are keepers. Has this been your experience also? ...

+2 Same as you and Kabluewy.

Had a rifle a good number of years ago that I had high hopes for. Actually messed with it for 3 years before it got to go Hunting. Traded it off after that first Kill. The replacement rifle is a definite keeper.

I've been trading rifles since the `50s and the ones made today are so much better than the old ones that there really is no valid comparison. Same for the Cartridge Components.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

good shooting, Andre.

Andre,

some fine shooting with some fine rifles.

Your statement.........."3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group."

Now as to 3 shots vs. 5 shots, I'm not near as dogmatic in my point of view.

I'm a meat hunter at heart. All of the paper punching I do is to basically establish a point of aim, or perhaps more correctly a point of impact. I endeavor to find an accurate load, that I can be shoot a sufficient number of times to be satisfied as to the point of impact, first time out of a cold barrel.
Then, taking the velocity and ballistic co-efficient of the particular bullet, I can calculate trajectory, within reason.


Works for me,




Ahhhhhh! Pork chops, pork loin, pork ribs, that what I'm aiming for.
Best
GWB

You Texas Boy's have all the Fun , Hog hunting !.

I like doing that with my 44 mag . Only three things better I can think of than shooting .

One of of them is Eating BBQ in Texas , I'll let you all figure out the other two !!!.

Good shooting too ALL of YOU !!!. I still like shooting # 5 for groups as it give a good indication of what

goes on when the barrel warms up .

I agree, usually the shooters will do so with many diff loads and still be descent with most any load.

Everyone has their own preferences as far as accuracy, groups, etc. My personal preference for accuracy on my target rifles is for them to give me consistent sub 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups in calm conditions and consistent sub 3/4 MOA on my hunting rifles.

Examples of rifles that shoot most loads well:

3 diff loads fired in the same session:


Same session:


Good hunting rig with 3 diff loads in the same session. I use the NBT load for local deer hunting. Actually shot 2 .6" groups at 200yds with the NBT load when zeroing. Funny thing is I gave a guy 365 bucks for that rig.




Example of a good rig with several diff loads:



I have a few others that do about the same, but I haven't scanned targets in a good while. Just keep them stacked in my loading room for notes.

I don't scan many hunting rifle targets. If they are less than .75 MOA at 200 to 250, I'm satisfied. Some of my current hunting rigs stay around 1/2 MOA, with a few less than 1/2 from time to time. Not needed, but makes you feel good about your equipment.

Good shooting guys.

Have a Good One,

Reloader