I have been shooting my new used 6mm rem. I got a crap load of ammo with the rifle. Against my normal rules of OPHLs (other peoples hand loads) I decided to shoot some. Since the OPHLs came from a good friend whom I consider a competant gun guy it seemed OK. My first red flag should have been the way the boxes were marked. They clearly stated:

6MM rem.....100 gr bullets
IMR 40.5 gr. 3100 FPS


There is no type error on this post. That is exactly how the box is marked.

After the first shot I examined the case for signs of pressure. The only indication is the primer has a little nipple left where it filled the firing pin hole in the bolt.

The next shot did not fire. Not even after 3 attempts.

The third shot left the case in the same shape as the first.

I have pulled all the bullets with my new Hornady camlock bullet puller.

Lesson learned:
Never trust ANYONES hand loads.

I have called my friend and expressed my opinion and I will add that my opinion of his loading has diminished.

Were the primers flat? How was bolt extraction?

I don't think I'd change my opinion of someone's loading based on one dud primer.

That said, it's always best to not shoot if you have any doubts.

Reloader

Good rule, but... Can we even trust our own reloads? Heck, I've had more trouble than that with mine.

So far what you've mentioned could be a rifle/bolt problem, or a primer as mentioned.

Pity about the lack of powder type on the box, but maybe he only had the one sort.

I did not see any other signs of pressure. Bolt lift and extraction was normal.
The primers were Rem 9-1/2.
I will admit that I have assumed it was an over pressure problem.
It could have been the primers.
If I were to guess the powder was imr4320.
The loader did not recall what powder he used.


So anyway, I burned the powder.
I put it in a pickle jar and lit it with an oil soaked ear swab.

It was quite spectacular. A pillar of flame about 10 feet high.

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:
They clearly stated:

6MM rem.....100 gr bullets
IMR 40.5 gr. 3100 FPS

Just that would make me skeptical about his reloading. It could be he only uses one powder for his 6mm so shorthanded the label but still?

That's a good example of why I don't give any people any of my handloads. Sure as hell they'll blame the ammo (and me) if anything about it doesn't please them, regardless what else the fault may be.

In this case the condition of the primer may very well not reflect a pressure problem at all. It may just be something as simple as a very slightly oversize firing pin hole in the bolt, or of a slightly weakened firing pin spring.

As for the way the box is marked, did he load the ammo especially for you? Or, was it just a box he had for himself and was nice enough to offer to you during a friendly discussion? If he loaded it for himself, I see no reason in the world you should hold any concern about his labelling practices. I'm sure HE knows why it is labeled that way. Surely you had the opportunity to look at it before you accepted it?

And, I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth if I entertained any hope of further consideration from said ammo provider if I ever really needed it.

I've had "dud" primers, and even "dud" factory ammo on rare occasions. Stuff happens...

Now I really feel bad.........NOT

This was no friendly discussion.
This was a trade of merchandise for service.
I call it a bartered sale.
Nothing was given out of goodness of heart or gifted to anyone.


Alberta, If you are in the practice of giving away your handloads you are taking on a huge liability.

Do you suppose your homeowners insurance would cover that?

Anyways. This guy is a valued friend.
I called him and explained what happened.

He said the ammo has been sitting around for a few years and had not looked at it before the trade. It just came with the rifle since he has no other rifles in that caliber.

In our discussion we rehashed our conversations about never shooting anyones handloads and I was promptly scolded for doing so.

I take on total responsibility for my actions and stand corrected for doing so.

Lesson learned again and again again.

Two other things occurred to me.

How was the headspace on the unfired rounds? Could that account for the misfires and primer condition after firing?

Did you try reloading the emptied rounds with a known powder (or even with no powder or bullet) to test the condition of the primers?

He said the ammunition came with the rifle? Were they rounds that he got when he acquired the rifle, and therefore unknown to him? Or did he actually load them himself?

Is the rifle's chamber of the proper dimensions?

I am just taking wild guesses here, but if your friend is usually reliable and careful, I suspect there might be something other than sloppy reloads. Let me put it another way. I HOPE there is something other than sloppy reloads here.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:
I did not see any other signs of pressure. Bolt lift and extraction was normal.
The primers were Rem 9-1/2.
I will admit that I have assumed it was an over pressure problem.
It could have been the primers.
If I were to guess the powder was imr4320.
The loader did not recall what powder he used.


So anyway, I burned the powder.
I put it in a pickle jar and lit it with an oil soaked ear swab.

It was quite spectacular. A pillar of flame about 10 feet high.

I try to indicate the powder type as well as amount on the cartridge box. In addition, whenever I load ammo, I make a note of it in my reloads logbook by date, cartridge designation, bullet make, type & weight; powder type & amount, case make, # of times loaded, and number of rounds loaded in that batch. I have such reload notes going back to 1970, just in case I want to duplicate some load that was a good one in the past.

I don't record case trimming, etc., because I measure all cases each time they are prepped for reloading, trim & chamfer if needed.

It does not pay to "guess" at what a particular load "might have been, maybe". Your friend's loading practices may be OK, but his record-keeping leaves something to be desired!

quote:

Originally posted by 45otto:

Alberta, If you are in the practice of giving away your handloads you are taking on a huge liability.

Do you suppose your homeowners insurance would cover that?

.

The very first sentence in my post says that I never give ANY handloads to ANYONE. So, I will make that more clear: I NEVER GIVE ANY HANDLOADS TO ANYONE!!


Now that you have given us all more information, I can only say I am happy to hear you have learned not to shoot other folks handloads, especially when you don't know who loaded them. MUCH safer that way.

As for my own handloading records, I not only record all my loads in binders organized by chambering, I also enter the data on EVERY target I shoot at the range, and keep all the targets in binders, forever, again organized by chambering, where I can easily refer to them.

But, based on the information originally posted, it appeared your friend was the loader, and it was not clear if he uses more than one kind of powder in that caliber. Until that info was known, I felt he deserved the benefit of the doubt. Now that we know he WASN'T the loader of the ammo, then we can say accurately that the loader (whoever he/she was) should have recorded more data on the box or else should not have passed the ammo on.

Anyway, a lesson well learned, and I hope you have a long and happy shooting life. Best wishes,

AC

My written communications greatly lack compared to my verbal. I did not want to make any arguments or make offence. I just wanted to state a well known practice in my small community of shooters and handloaders. A practice that I have neglected to follow.....again.