The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading 2 die set or 3 die set?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm trying to decide on dies for a ruger 416 ruger. It has been quite a while since I was involved in reloading for maximum accuracy. I do want to squeeze as much accuracy out of this gun as I can, but I have no desire to waste time doing work that doesn't produce benefits. What do you guys think? Sand Creek November 29 1864 | ||
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2 die will work just fine, save your money. I only use 3 die for strait walled cases such as 357 Mag "though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression." ---Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Other than for pistol dies the only 3 die set I own is my 400PDK which is basically a cylinder 06 case so it loads pretty much like a straight wall pistol. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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A fantastic 3 die set is the Lee collet set ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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depending on what the third die in the set is. a case mouth flair die isn't a bad idea in either case,and a neck size die is never a mistake. | |||
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Not available in my caliber. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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Maybe the redding set. " Deluxe die sets for bottleneck cases include a full length sizing die, seating die and neck sizing die. " Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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the neck die will add some life to ypur cases. you'll have to set a regimine for your set-up. my usual m.o. is to neck size for three loads then anneal the case and a full length sizing. i then check to see if the cases need trimmed. sometimes yes sometimes no. i usually toss my cases due to primer pockets getting loose. even a belted mag round benefits from neck sizing,you can't share ammo between rifles, but you can extend case life. sometimes double it. | |||
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Would I be correct in assuming you loose just a little accuracy when you full length size, as a result of the case slopping around in the chamber? Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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No, not necessarily, particularly in a hunting caliber and particularly in something as large as a .416. The most compelling reason not to FLS a hunting round is not accuracy, but rather the overworking of the brass, excessive headspace, and incipient head separations therefrom. "Conventional" neck-sizing dies may have a tendency to leave the neck cocked to one side since the case below it is unsupported. I prefer to neck-size with the FL die by simply backing it off of the shellholder the appropriate amount (depending on your chamber and your die, approximately .05" or so.) This allows the forward portion of the case body to be very slightly resized without setting back the shoulder and keeps the entire case in true alignment with the neck. Alternatively, the Lee Collet die does an outstanding job of straight neck sizing, and without the mess of lubricant to clean up. If that die is available in .416 Rem, then you can probably modify it for your .416 Ruger if you wanted to go to that trouble. But better still would be to have Lee make you a custom Collet die, which costs only $50 the last time I checked. However, simply using your FL die as I described will provide much the same result. | |||
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This is not an accuracy specialized round since the hunting quarry it is used on are huge. The best sizers are going to be Forster, RCBS or Redding. I don't know that Forster even makes one. The best seater is - there is not one. The best setup will be a very precise setup of the FL die and multiple sizing strokes to get the shoulder set exactly right and get the case neck straight. After that so far as I know you are stuck with ordinary seating dies. Even with ordinary dies you can get spectacular results if you know what you are doing. | |||
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Multiple sizing strokes? Is that to ease the case into the new size instead of jamming it in and deforming the brass?
Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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Hi Frank, I am talking about one of my personal techniques. I find it works really well for me and costs nothing but a little time. It takes a Hornady headspace measuring tool to measure and appreciate the technique. What I learned from forming a lot of brass is the shoulder location can vary slightly (maybe plus or minus .002) due to speed of the sizing stroke, the dwell time at the top of the stroke (dwell meaning the time the press sets at the top of the stroke) and the amount of case lube applied. Speed and dwell affect the time the brass has to form or move and take a permanent set when sized. The amount of lubrication affects the force required to form the brass. Multiple passes when sizing a case just doubles or triples the sizing process forces and time. All of that serves to remove variation in the location of the shoulder when full length resizing. The first stroke does most of the shoulder movement, a second or even 3rd stroke serves to move the shoulder that slight amount to the exact dimension the die is set to. The way this is done is very easy on such a large case. Starting with a clean dry sizing die lube a case well and size slowly with a 2 or 3 second dwell at the top. This distributes the lube in the die and moves the shoulder most of of the way. (Subsequent cases will need less lube once the sizer has a layer of lube on the surface. The first 2 or 3 cases tend to have more variation due to the variation in the amount of lube present.) Retract the sized case just enough to permit you to turn it one third to one half turn and size slowly again with the dwell. If this stroke felt like it took a lot of force you can size even a 3rd time the same way, just partially retract and size with a dwell. What you will find using this technique is that each and every case will be sized to exactly the same length from the head to the shoulder. For my bolt guns I use this technique to set the head to shoulder headspace to exactly fit the chamber. Using the stripped bolt I can barely feel the bolt face drag on the case as the bolt is rotated to the locked position. It seems to significantly improve accuracy in every rifle including 100 year old milsurps if they have a decent bore. For other actions like levers, pumps and Contenders I prefer .001 clearance. For an auto loader or maybe DGR ammo I would use maybe .002 to .003 clearance. All of these clearances are much less than you get with SAAMI chamber and ammo specifications. | |||
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That's really informative. I'm starting to remember some of this stuff again. I shot 1000yd benchrest for just a little while, and silhouette for a while. But I've been doing combat pistol stuff for quite a few years now. I've ordered a 2 die set from redding to get me going. If I need more dies I can buy them later. I would really like a micrometer adjustable bullet seater but nobody makes one. I'll just have to smoke the bullets and square them up on the lands and adjust from there I guess. It's a bit of a pain when using different bullets. I've never heard of the multiple stroke method before, but I'm definitely going to use it. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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Good stuff there SR-4759.  | |||
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i seat the same way as sr sizes. usually with 2 strokes a half stroke to start then a turn and a final seat. you can make your own maximum seating depth guage from a case and a bullet.. remember to measure to the ogive and not the tip of the bullet. | |||
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