My brother recently killed a deer with a cartridge he reloaded in 1982. It was a 30-06 cartridge, RP case, 165 gr Speer bullet, CCI primer with 4064 powder. I know that ammunition can have a long shelf life if it is stored properly. What are some of your experiences with "old" reloads?

I was shooting up a bunch of German ammo from 1938 till someone told me what collectors were paying for it. That and some Equadorian,Yugo, and Turk. Had just a very few miss fires on the first try but most did fine the secound time. roger

Most of the arsenal ammunition has shelac sealed primers and bullets to make the ammo "waterproof" or at least warer resistant. The 1938 stuff is about as old as any I've heard about but that is arsenal or factory run ammo. What about your reloads?

I'm still shooting some of the stuff I loaded in 73 or 74. Works just fine.

For me its about two to three weeks. I can't seem to keep it around. I think I may have an old 270 round that is left over from my early hunting years that would be about 30 years old. Maybe I will dig it out and see whats what.

I'm still shooting up a few boxes of ammo I loaded in the 1970s. As for longivity of factory ammo, back in 1965 i was shooting some 7x57mm Union Arms ammo- yes, the old 175 grain FMJ stuff, through a M1895 Mauser sporter, and it performed every bit as good as the fresh .30-06 Match Ball we had for our M-1 match rifles. It all seems to be in how the ammo is stored.

LLS

Under even reasonable conditions, I see no reason why reloads can not be used 40 years later.

Thanks to all. I read once that U. S. Military ammo has an expected shelf life of at least 80 years. Aside from the sealant on the projectile and the primer used by the military, our handloads are not much different. If it is assembeled in a relativly clean enviroment and if stored out of the weather, it should last for a very long time. Your experience has supported this expectation. I won't do this anymore but I have fired rounds that went through the washer/dryer just to see if they would fire, which they did. No hangfire, no misfire although the dryer tumbeling rounded the exposed tip. Thanks again

Wiley Walker

I have some Chilean 7x57 dated 1927 that will still go bang.

The only reloads that deteriorated were some 7 X 57s that Iused surplus 4895 that went bad. Wierd sounding and a lot of duds. When the bullets were pulled their ass ends were green and the powder smelled like nitric acid. These were on the shelf,loaded, for only about 7 or 8 months.

Other posters have indicated that during WWII loaded 06 ammo can exhibit the same scenario as a final rinse to the 4895 was ommitted. roger

i've still got some WW1 45's that go off fine

One problem is that the brass is work hardened after setting that long , split cases and generally non reloadable . Other than that most rounds will go off no problem .

I have a whole bunch of .380 rounds as well as some 06 stuff I reloaded 30+ years ago , It shoots just fine ONCE almost every case is splitting .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
One problem is that the brass is work hardened after setting that long , split cases and generally non reloadable .


Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

You have to explain to me how a case that is sitting around not being used can be work hardened???????Perhaps oxidized.

I have a few hundred rounds of surplus 303 Brit ball ammo dated 1917 that still has its full potency. Sometimes I have to pull a bullet to prove to a Doubting Thomas that it is the original Cordite load. It has a little cardboard wad on top of the full-length sticks of Cordite and cupro-nickel bullets (tips for those of you across the pond).

It is as good as the day it was issued.

I agree that reloaded brass cases can become brittle sitting on the shelf for a long time. I think that on firing some compunds must be blasted into the interor surface of the case that continue to act on the alloy and change its maleability. Maybe someone who knows the exact cause can chip in?

He uses the wrong term, "age hardening" would be more appropriate...

That being said brass CAN work-harden sitting in a box on a shelf....

My brother aquired a batch of old remington FACTORY ammo.

it was 270winchester ammo factory loaded with the 130gr Bronze point expander bullets.

It was old enough (this being the early 80's) that it was in the O-L-D Red & Green Remington boxes. (REM-UMC headstamps)

On firing the first two or three there were no issues
My brother was just burning them up in practice...

I turned away to do something else as he fired the next four rounds but when I turned back as he fired I guess the seventh or eighth I notices a wisp of smoke at the breech and yelled at him to stop...

On examination of the brass the last case had suffered a double "K" split!
This is a split in the body of the case through the case head and into the primer pocket and it had TWO only about 45degrees apart.

On close examination ALL of the cases had some kind of split
from case neck cracks to body splits to several cracks into the extractor groove...

we immediatly took most of that ammunition apart
The propellant appeared to have survived storage well
so I simply reloaded the propellant charge into newer
cases so he could use up the bullets in practice...

I recently found 50rounds of that batch if anyone wants to blow up a 270winchester... I wish I had the original cardboard boxes but they were falling apart 20-odd years ago...

As we figuire it the ammunition sat sharing a shelf with a rotary oscillating fan for atleast 40 years and the vibration
from the fan workhardened the brass.
(nothing else makes any sense)

So again it comes down to how the ammo is stored...

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
He uses the wrong term, "age hardening" would be more appropriate...

That being said brass CAN work-harden sitting in a box on a shelf....AD

Does the term "age stress relief" fit in here? roger

Brass gets work hardened from being manipulated in size by the Reloading dies.It then becomes brittle.That is why you anneal it. To make it soft and malleable again.Brass can not get work hardened by sitting there.I suppose that in a tumbler that it could get work hardened and maybe by vibration.I think that probably from impurities in the brass and oxidation would be the reasons for cracking when at rest.Oxidation is what makes the brass turn green.The process actually eats away at the brass,thinning it out.

Exposure to ammonia can trigger stress corrosion cracking. So can powder that has gone bad.
Stress corrosion cracking was discovered by the British when they stored their .577/450 ammo in the same barns they kept their horses in during the monsoon season in India. The ammonia fumes from the horse urine caused the loaded ammo to crack.

I have had stress corrosion cracking occur in a lot of ammo loaded with WWII surplus 4831.
Most of the necks cracked, some while loaded and some when they were fired. Some of the necks split length wise and some cracked around the neck almost leaving the neck in the chamber.
Some of the rounds fired like squib loads and sme of the rounds failed to fire. These rounds were pulled. I found the powder was moist appearing and smelled like nitric acid. I had noticed the same nitric acid smell in the cabinet that I stored the powder in. I opend a container that had a bout 10 lbs of the old 4831 in it. That powder too, was moist appearing and and smelled strongly of nitric acid. It was later poured out into a long trail and burned in open air.

Although all metals are trying to "get back" to their natural state...rust is iron oxide...I don't agree that cartridge cases can get brittle just by sitting in a box from age alone.

But powder certainly does degrade with time. Very much so.

I agree with the two previous posts there has to be another input. Especially where cases fired with mercuric primers are reloaded.

I have my father's brass "button stick" a brass cleaning guard used by soldiers to protect their equipment when cleaning brass buttons, buckles or webbing fitments.

It is dated 1918. Hasn't split or cracked yet! Good for another two World Wars at least!

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Exposure to ammonia can trigger stress corrosion cracking. So can powder that has gone bad.
Stress corrosion cracking was discovered by the British when they stored their .577/450 ammo in the same barns they kept their horses in during the monsoon season in India. The ammonia fumes from the horse urine caused the loaded ammo to crack.

I have had stress corrosion cracking occur in a lot of ammo loaded with WWII surplus 4831.
Most of the necks cracked, some while loaded and some when they were fired. Some of the necks split length wise and some cracked around the neck almost leaving the neck in the chamber.
Some of the rounds fired like squib loads and sme of the rounds failed to fire. These rounds were pulled. I found the powder was moist appearing and smelled like nitric acid. I had noticed the same nitric acid smell in the cabinet that I stored the powder in. I opend a container that had a bout 10 lbs of the old 4831 in it. That powder too, was moist appearing and and smelled strongly of nitric acid. It was later poured out into a long trail and burned in open air.

I've got some 7.62x54R from the fifties that's starting to do the same thing.

I sort of broke myself from shooting old ammo a few years back.

First was some old Western 30-30 170grn factory rounds and a old box of 38 Special factory loaded LRNs. Sorry, can't give you exact time frames so I'll have to guess by saying 30 years or so. Both boxes contained several duds and quite a variance in the sound of the rounds that did fire.

What really took the cake was I had some older factory loaded 7RM 150grn Rem CLs from back when they had the ring around the nose in front of the Cann. Couldn't be that old as the 7RM hasn't been around too terribly long. I fired one at the range over my chrono to help foul a very clean bbl before some load development in one of my hunting rifles. It was very loud(turned a few heads), kicked very strong, split the case open, and went across the chrono at 3260 fps! I'm just glad I didn't get any injuries and the rifle(Model 700) held together.

I'm sure ammo can last decades, but from those few instances, I don't care to shoot anything that's over around 20 years old.

Good Luck

Reloader

OlDBIKER ; You have to explain to me how a case that is sitting around not being used can be work hardened???????Perhaps oxidized. Roll Eyes

Allan Degroot ;He uses the wrong term, "age hardening" would be more appropriate...

Dr.K
That's what I meant to say and I Screwed Up !.

I have several OLD rounds which are now splitting after firing . They weren't " Worked " but have age hardened now . I Never load MAX rounds and most of these were Middle of the road loads . They're not even really tarnished discolored some what but definitely not what I would consider Tarnished . Their in plastic type Ammo boxes labeled so I know when and what I loaded .

They are fire once police the brass and toss them in the scrap bucket .

I would also like to reassure all of you BRASS can go bad all by it's self in a paper box NON LOADED !. I've got a box of 30-30 original shells in their paper Winchester box with 4 live rounds left ( I saved it for the Box ) they also have factory primers not reloaded primers in the cases I sure as hell wouldn't try reloading them under any circumstances !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...