I have experienced numerous hangfires with CCI LR standard primers latley. I loaded my 300 WSM with 123 gr Lapua FMJ:s in front of 60 gr of N-150 an that load hangfired about 90%of the rounds

I have also had hangfiers in my 9,3x66 loaded with CCI LR standars and 15 grams Norma FMJ:s in front of 60 gr of N-140.

I have noted hangfires with two different lots of CCI primers. Any other that have the same experiences with CCI and hangfires??

Stefan

CCI rifle primers are among the hardest primers out there for the handloader. Federals are one of, if not the softest. Using Federal primers will most likely solve a hangfire problem. As long as there is not a mechanical problem...(weak firing pin spring, broken firing pin, excessive dirt in firing pin channel). Make sure your firearm is mechanically sound before experimenting with different primers. Good luck

Hey Stefan, One more possibility is if you are "Full Length Resizing", you may be creating Excess Headspace.

But, try cleaning the Bolt before you do anything else. Look in the Owner's Manual and it will tell you how to take it apart.

A lot of us Spray Clean Bolts with regular old Carb or Brake Cleaner. But it removes every single bit of oil. You need just enough oil in it to prevent rusting, but not so much as to attract dirt. It should feel "slick" but not look like oil is on it. Maybe someone else can describe this better.

Years back I had what I thought was a CCI primer problem .

It turned out I wasn't seating them deap enough .
I was only a few thou short , but with the harder CCI primers I was just seating the problem ones with the firing pin .
Where Fed and Rem primers would go off .

I seated them a touch deeper and never had another problem .

Johnch

Thx. for the input on my hangfire problems.

I think my problem isn´t gun-related. I have experienced this problem in several different guns witch are in good shape and the bolts are clean and proper lubricated. The latest hangfires occured in my 300 WSM/Sako 591 action and and in my 9,3x66/HVA 640 M-98 action. Plenty of firepin-power in both.

I do all my primer seating with a Bonanza or Sinclair tool. I set the primers by feel so they bottoms out every time..........

Stefan

Hey Stefan, That last post of yours says a lot about the way you reload.

Now I'm with the guys that suspect you have just got a Bad Lot of Primers.

Go buy some other Brand and see how they do for you. If they work, let the folks at CCI know and they will "probably" help you out with those questionable Primers.

quote:

CCI rifle primers are among the hardest primers out there for the handloader. Federals are one of, if not the softest. Using Federal primers will most likely solve a hangfire problem. As long as there is not a mechanical problem...(weak firing pin spring, broken firing pin, excessive dirt in firing pin channel). Make sure your firearm is mechanically sound before experimenting with different primers. Good luck

ditto

Reloader

When I started reloading for 303 and 243 in '88 CCI large rifle primers were recommended by BR shooters at my range. I used them for three years tolerating 1% failure until one occured during a timed comp.None of the above mechanical reasons apply. Since then I have bought and used Winchester LRPs plus occassionaly Federal, which I win. Not one "fail to fire" in many thousands.

Had the same problem a while back with the .358 X.404 IMP.At the time I did not suspect the primers, but I do now.

30 yrs. ago we could not share this info and we'd be in the dark. Thanks roger

Stefan,

Are you experiencing "hangfire" or "misfire," which are different things? Misfire means it doesn't go off; hangfire means it goes off later than you expect.

Jaywalker

Jaywalker.

My experience is hangfires! I can hear the fireingpin strike before the round goes off!

--------------

I have been reloading my rounds for some 20 y now and have been a gunsmith besides my regular job for some 10 y. Without sounding like a smartass (or try to) I think I have my gun sorted resonably well

I don´t mean to offend any of you guys that have given me clues to any possible causes to my hangfires!! Pls. don´t get that inpression!!

I could mabye have mentioned a few more details of my experience (or lack of it) before I posted my question.....

Stefan

Stefan, I've personally loaded hundreds of rounds with CCI's, and have had no problems, but I'm just "one" person, and I've only used hundreds when at least tens of thousands have been produced.

Personally, I'd say get ahold of CCI, and let them know about the problems. (hopefully they'll work with you). And post the lot #'s of the primers that you've had problems with, for the information of the forum. (incase anyone else has problems).

Best of luck in working it out.

mike

What are the make(s) of rifle?

When you look at the firing pin indentation is it a "standard" depth or is it a light strike?

Is this recent or was it very cold when it happened?

Is it the powder charge that's delayed or the primer?

Is there a chance that oil or grease contaminated the primer or the powder charge?

Jaywalker

I find this remarkable...

Here there is claimed to be a problem with CCI primers, in another forum they claim problems with Winchester primers, yet in another the demon primer is Remington. And, yes, there are even some who claim that Federal primers are the curse of Armageddon.

The only thing I find that is common to all complaints is ... it is reloaders who are doing the complaining about ALL primers. I wonder if their technique is up to par...

The indentation in the primers looks ok! Just like a normal indentation when everything is ok.

The primers are stored in roomtemperature and there is no oil or grease involved to mess things up.

The temperature was around +15 c so cold shouldn´t be the cause.

I have useally used Federal and Remington for my handloads thru the years with about five mailfunktions that I can blame the primers for. I have mabye loaded around 40-50 000 rounds with Federal and Remington primers......

I´ll take a loo at the lot nr. on my CCI:s and post it tomorrow!

Stefan

I tend to agree with ricciardelli (but this does not imply that I think Stefan's loading technique is the problem). I have been reloading for 42 years and have found every brand and type of primer to be incredibly reliable. The only ignition problems I have experienced have been with individual guns that obviously had a weak spring or other problem (and showed similar ignition problems with all primers), or once with a group of primers that sat for years in primed but unloaded brass and exposed to the general elements.

This is not to say that a manufacturer may, on ocassion, produce a defective batch; it just obviously doesn't happen very often. I find CCI's as reliable as any.

Stefan: Keep us posted as you track down the source of your problem.

There's another possibility, given that you've done some gunsmithing, and is the reason I asked about the rifle type. I have seen an occasional M70 trigger/safety timing that left the firing pin fall too short.

Jaywalker

Is N150 a ball powder? If so, Spherical (ball) powders have a deterrent coating on them to control burning rate. This type of powders need a Magnum prime in my opinion. CCI 250 Large Rifle Mag.

Is it better to be above or below par??? roger

Stonecreek's experience parallels mine.

Over the last forty years, I've used literally tens of thousands of CCI primers, including loading for two active Bullseye shooters over their 20-year "careers" (over 200,000 .38 wadcutter loads). One reason was that CCIs were by far the most-available in Canada through most of that time. They gave perfect service in hunting loads right down to the minus-40s in temperature, and I never had any cause for complaint.

One thing I noticed in this thread is that one of those reporting problems is in Sweden, and another one's in Australia. This makes me wonder just how those primers were treated in shipment, and also how long since the manufacture date before being used.

The single situation where I do NOT use CCIs today, is due to one particular S&W Airweight .38 Special. It has a delightful (DA only) trigger feel, but the hammer fall is simply too light for CCI primers. Rather than louse up the wonderful trigger, I now use Federal Gold medal Match primers for all our half-dozen or so .38 Specials. The little 642 is 100% reliable with the Federal GMs. Also, the concealed-carry ammunition for this gun is the Federal 129 Hydra-Shok load, which also works perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by ricciardelli:
I find this remarkable...

Here there is claimed to be a problem with CCI primers, in another forum they claim problems with Winchester primers, yet in another the demon primer is Remington. And, yes, there are even some who claim that Federal primers are the curse of Armageddon.

The only thing I find that is common to all complaints is ... it is reloaders who are doing the complaining about ALL primers. I wonder if their technique is up to par...

I am with you Steve, I have never had a primer fail in over 30 yrs of loading by any manufacturer. I am either doing something right or pretty darned lucky.

I hope this doesn't snake bite me but I can't tell how many bricks of cci primers I've used over the years, and, knock on wood, haven't had a problem.
And, if I couldn't get cci's, I've used Remingtons and Winchesters without a problem. I guess I'm blest.

Well, as stated earlier, due to the quality of the manufacturing today, I would imagine that most all of the primers made are going to be good. But, when you think about the sheer amount of primers made my "all" the manufacturers, (CCI, Winchester, Remington, Fedral, etc.) that's "A LOT" of primers, and there's bound to be some bad ones that turn up from time to time. (I'm not factoring for guns and their unique qualities/ faults). All we can do is roll with the punches.

mike

I have had many problems with CCI primers failing to ignite to the point I don't use them anymore. Let me say that I know those who have never had a proble.

In 1965 (I think), Gary Anderson experieced a failure to fire in a rapid fire match at Camp Perry, then in the alibi round, three of the rounds failed to fire. When relating this to Ickey Starks, he said, "I wrote a note to him saying that nobody who is anybody in the shooting game uses CCI primers" and sent it anonymously.

When talking to Dillon on the phone about ordering one of his progressive presses, he stated when using his press not to use CCI primers.

I believe what has been said in the previous posts, that CCI's have a hard cup and that, that if you don't seat them firmly at the bottom of the pocket, you'll experience the occasional misfire. I don't want that to happen if I'm in a situation where my life depends on the next round going off. I'll stick to Winchesters, Federals and Remingtons.

I bet it is a weak spring.

Like Bart said above, CCI produces about the hardest primer on the market. I have seen firearms that would not set off cci primers due to light springs but, they never failed w/ wins or feds which both have softer primers.

This doesn't involve cci rifle primers but, The best example I can think of that I currently own is a S+W 586 w/ a trigger job (Lighter spring). It has a nice trigger to say the least but, you can not load rounds w/ CCI primers because it will not set them off. Maybe one out of three will fire. You have to roatate the cylinder back around and allow it to strike the primer again for it to fire, the first blow just puts a tiny dent in the primer. That same pistol has never failed w/ win or fed primers and I've put quite a few through it.

A friend wanted some loads worked up for his new 686 7 shot 357. I thought since his had a factory trigger it would do well w/ any primer, wrong. I tried ccis in his revovler and about one per cylinder would fail. Tried rem and wins and never had a problem.

Try some feds out in that rifle and see what happens.

Good Luck

Reloader

Your problem is not the primers. Factory stats say only 1 in a milliion primers are bad.either your firing pin protusion is to short,weak firing pin spring,or contaminated primers from a foreign substance is your problem. van

99.99% of primers go BANG.Most times a slow firing pin from to much dirt in the firearm (rifle) is the problem. Spray with WD40 to fix. Stand rifles on the muzzle in the gun rack so oil from bore doesnt run into the action. With CCI small pistol primer i have run into problems with fit to the brass. The primer has been to large in diameter to seat easy without deforming the primer. This has happened back in the 60's and just lately with another lot of CCI primers. If your primer fit is getting loose from many firing of the brass, try the larger size of CCI small mag pistol primers. Also Winchester primers seem to have a taper to there leading edge, this help the prime to find the whole in the brass when using a progressive press.

Had the problem I was not seating them deep enough , problem gone.
Bill

quote:

Had the problem I was not seating them deep enough , problem gone.
Bill

Bill brings up a good point about seating depth as well as have others that posted. Seating depth is more critical w/ CCIs than others although, critical w/ all. When you have a very hard primer (CCI), and it's not seated properly the pin can just seat the primer upon falling. I've seen folks reloads that didn't seat their primers fully w/ ccis. My advvise is to set them on a flat table top and if they wobble, you don't have the primers set deep enough. A good tool for proper seating depth is the inexpensive Lee Auto Prime, it definitely gives you a good feel for when the primer has bottomed out.

Good Luck

Reloader

Had the same problem on my Ruger #1 with CCI Mag primers. I was using the Lee hand primer seater but apparently it wasn't seating them fully. The problem went away when I used the primer seater on my loading press.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo L.:
Had the same problem on my Ruger #1 with CCI Mag primers. I was using the Lee hand primer seater but apparently it wasn't seating them fully. The problem went away when I used the primer seater on my loading press.

Can't say about a single shot, but, guess what happens when I close a bolt on a cartridge that has a primer seated a tad out too far.If it is a long chamber but within specs. It might stick out .0025". roger