A number of our bretheren use the term weapons when refering to sporting arms.

Question:
Could there be denotations or conotations conjoined with this expressed terminology that are detrimental to our right to bare arms.
?

Choices:
YES
NO
Maybe
Who gives a big rats ass?

 

A weapon is something used in an offensive or defensive manner. Sporting arms don't qualify.

I voted yes, but the sad truth is that it shouldn't matter if it is a true weapon or not. The 2nd Amendment doesn't state that we have the right to bare arms that are solely intended for sporting use.

Since the 2nd Amendment is about the security of free state, it certainly makes no distinction about occasionally using them for fur or fowl.

I use the word firearm...

I guess it is being around too many liberals who act like the Words "Gun" or "Incest" Or 'pedofile' are about equal in the eyes of the public....

Police departments are always referring to any gun as a weapon. I certainly don't have any mental pictures that are damning to our right to own guns when they are called weapons. But, the Liberal lunatics might. Since their testosterone level is below whale shit, anything and everything that can harm anyone are anything is bad however, including your grandmother's knitting needles.

Don

I would have like to seen a choice of:

Semantics

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I use the word firearm......

+1

But I went with giving folks who are offended the rats.

quote:

My whole body is a weapon

The uninformed will always view the shooting sports as barbaric and media coverage will reinforce that view. As it is today a large chunk of the population doesn't even realize the shooting sports comprises more than just trap & skeet, and of them, most think we're just spraying the countryside with lead.

Those seeking to curb your rights will always paint us with the proverbial tar brush. Fact is, if and when the Second Amendment goes, the First will fall right behind it. It's all about control people, and John Q. Public is loosing.

It is my thought that just by pure definition (Webster and Craigster) the word weapon perpetuates a certain amount of hysteria and is used for that purpose. Ergo--"Weapons of mass destruction."

A screw driver, baseball bat, tire wrench, and roller skate are not normally considered weapons but have been used as such.Yet no one on this or any forum calls them weapons. Maybe the distinction between assault rifle and Win. Mod. 94 is not as remote?

Perhaps our terminology (weapon) is narrowing that distinction. Just a thought. roger

It is a firearm. What you intend to do with it determines its name beyond that. The same could be said for a hammer or a blunt object. It may be a statue when you pick it up but it's a letal weapon when you lay it down after caving someones head in with it.
I think we're being a bit too PC.
Whether we harvest the deer or kill it, it is dead, dead, dead. And hitting the re-set won't bring it back to life. Maybe kids need to made aware of that instead of playing word games with them.

Main Entry: 1weap·on
Pronunciation: \ˈwe-pən\
From Merriam-Webster:
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English wǣpen; akin to Old High German wÄffan weapon, Old Norse vÄpn
Date: before 12th century
1 : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2 : a means of contending against another


Apparently what determines a weapon is its usage. If a gun is used to injure, defeat or destroy it may be a weapon!

Is this a weapon?
Pat

Why is it that I'm not surprised that the RAT'S ASS category had such a large vote? not really roger

Danged right they are weapons!! All one has to do to figure that out is to try to come in my locked door at night, without first ascertaining whether they are welcome!

Four times in my civilian life I have had to use a gun to defend myself or myself AND my girl friend of the time. Twice in San Francisco. Both times we were assaulted by a gang. About half of them tried to break into the car to get at her. I was out of the car using a phone booth. The other half of the gang came for me. Both times a .357 Magnum caused a LOT of rapid running.

Once in Oklahoma City. Stumbled into an "ethnic" area (SE OK City) while wife & I were looking for the VA hospital. Forced off the road by two car loads of the "disadvantaged". Danged right they were at a disadvantage. I had a Ruger ACC-556, loaded, with a 30-round clip in it and another one taped to that. Switch on "full-auto".

Once more, when an AWOL Marine, hitch-hiking in full dress uniform in the wee hours, decided I hadn't taken him as far south on old 99-West as he wanted to go. Laid his hand on my shoulder-holstered GI .45 auto and said..."and how far will you take me when I have your gun?"

I had the same old 4" Colt .357 Mag in my left hand, down in the car door pocket (it was an
Austin-Healey Sebring (SP?). My response was "To the nearest ditch.", laying the end of the barrel tight between his eyes. He became very nice and asked if I would let him out right there....

Every firearm I own can be a weapon - so can my bow. If I am hunting I have a weapon in my hands. I may have to vanquish a deer, elk or attacking rabbit. A gun is a short barreled weapon (compared to a rifle) but it is illegal to have a short barreled shotgun. My 03A3 was built as a weapon. I use it to hunt with, plink with, (yep! and it's FUN), and shoot targets with. When I am on the range it's a rifle, in the woods and at home it's a weapon. I really don't give a care if it stirs the fear of injury in some people. I hope it does. Those are the people we will be using our weapons to defend if the country finishes giving up our rights to buy the feeling of safety. I am safe because I have and carry guns. If that bothers some people they should arm themselves.

There are guns my father designed in this book. One on page 186 and another on page 187.

The book starts out with clubs on page 15 and works up to missiles on page 276.

Seems like I brought this very subject up a while back and got trashed by some of the good folk on this site.
My remington is a sporting firearm and will stay as such until the bleeding heart liberals decide I cannot have it anymore. Then, it will become a weapon of war to insure that this country stays free. I may be way too old to technically be a member of the militia but I damn well ain't too damned old to squeeze a trigger.
Paul B.

I have the right, not the privilage, to own and use "weapons" to defend myself. This has nothing to do with "sporting firearms". Terms like "sporting firearms" are what led to "assault rifles".

Bob

Yes, it matters the perjorative perception 'they' are creating matters a lot.

Imagine this scanario from England. It has been reported a number of times, do not remember where or when, but it includes most metropolitan areas from Manchester / Liverpool in the NW, through places like Birmingham in the Midlands down to Lonodon over the last five years or so.

A routine traffic police stop of a small tradesman's van. Open the back, look inside, start pulling this apart etc. They come across the tradesman's tool box. Let us say the tradesman is a carpenter / joiner.

The police officer picks up one of the tools. Let us say it is a screwdriver or a chisel. The police officer puts a hypothetical question to the tradesman standing at the side of the road:

"Would you use this / one of your tools to defend yourself with if attacked?"

The tradesman answers honestly, "Yes".

Right, you are nicked (under arrest) for having an offensive weapon with intent....

I personally have met a chef who was nicked by Avon & Somerset Police coming home from the Lord Mayor of Bristol's banquet carrying his chefing knives in a protective cloth roll in a bag. This was in the very early hours of the morning after the event had finished.

Fortunately for him, the Lord Mayor of Bristol's office / Banqueting facitity and orgainsers were able to vouch for him.

quote:

Originally posted by robthom:
Yes, it matters the perjorative perception 'they' are creating matters a lot.

Imagine this scanario from England. It has been reported a number of times, do not remember where or when, but it includes most metropolitan areas from Manchester / Liverpool in the NW, through places like Birmingham in the Midlands down to Lonodon over the last five years or so.

A routine traffic police stop of a small tradesman's van. Open the back, look inside, start pulling this apart etc. They come across the tradesman's tool box. Let us say the tradesman is a carpenter / joiner.

The police officer picks up one of the tools. Let us say it is a screwdriver or a chisel. The police officer puts a hypothetical question to the tradesman standing at the side of the road:

"Would you use this / one of your tools to defend yourself with if attacked?"

The tradesman answers honestly, "Yes".

Right, you are nicked (under arrest) for having an offensive weapon with intent....

I personally have met a chef who was nicked by Avon & Somerset Police coming home from the Lord Mayor of Bristol's banquet carrying his chefing knives in a protective cloth roll in a bag. This was in the very early hours of the morning after the event had finished.

Fortunately for him, the Lord Mayor of Bristol's office / Banqueting facitity and orgainsers were able to vouch for him.

And how much heat have you and your friends been putting to the feet of your MPs, the Minister of Justice, and the AG since you became aware of these happenings, please?

You ARE aware they are dependent on your"swing" votes to keep them in office and prevent the fall of the government, aren't you?

Alberta Canuck

You have to realise 'how things are done' in England.

While 'we' have the 1689? Bill of Rights, in practice the permanent, unelected civil service, which really runs the country does, very much what it wants.

Unlike the USA, when the Prime Minister / political party of government changes, the civil service administration does not. They are a powerful, self serving group and, in many ways, are beyond democratic audit.

Additionally, whereas in the US, where many high level police and legal positions are electorally accountable, this is not the case in England.

High profile instances where the police have acted outside the law do make it into the press. If you have sufficient high level momentum on your side, you can obtain some redress after the fact: 18 months or two years after the event. Sometime much longer.

There are members of parliament who are concerned about police actions and accountability. These tend to be on the soft centre of the Liberal left wing political persuasion.

Regretably, both the right of centre and the left are happily more authoritarian in their vies/outlook and think the 'sheeple' are a containment problem to be managed.

The response to a series of serious miscarriages of justice caused by the Home Office Scientists, pathologists and the Police is truly scary. They display arrogance and contempt of the judicial process and the truth.

The classic police response is they 'got off' on appeal, case review/re-trial, they were guilty all along and a 'bent', or stupid jury let them go. Never mind the scientific evidence was adulterated, plain wrong etc to begin with.

Weapons Did someone mention weapons ?.
An object in which bodily harm may result from it's use upon another living creature .

Bartsche : It stems from my Military days !.We weren't allowed to call a rifle a gun or any other instrument of destruction !. They were referred to as a " Weapon " . A stick ,Knife shovel , base ball bat , vehicle all can be considered weapons !. Depending on their usage .


The Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

Militia

The word "militia" has several meanings. It can be a body of citizens (no longer exclusively male) enrolled for military service where full time duty is required only in emergencies. The term also refers to the eligible pool of citizens callable into military service. (dictionary.com)

The federal government can use the militia for the following purposes as stated in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution:

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

Is the Militia the National Guard ?.
I personally Don't believe it is !.

It's original purpose and context of meaning , was to insure the " Federal Government " could and would not interfere with State regulations and the prevention of Federal insurgency !. So much for that Article Huh !.

I've been bearing my Arms since I was born !.
No one ever locked me up for that one !?.

For the record NO WEAPON has ever intentionally harmed any one with out an external influence !.

Shoot Straight Know Your WEAPON and TARGET !. ...

I tend to use the term firearm, for a gun. I don’t usually hang around many liberals and the ones I do know what to expect from me. When I am talking about anything that can cause harm (baseball bat, shovel, etc.) I use the term weapon.

quote:

From Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry:
1weap·on
Pronunciation: \ˈwe-pən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English wæpen; akin to Old High German wÄffan weapon, Old Norse vÄpn
Date:
before 12th century
1 : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2 : a means of contending against another

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
Police departments are always referring to any gun as a weapon. I certainly don't have any mental pictures that are damning to our right to own guns when they are called weapons. But, the Liberal lunatics might. Since their testosterone level is below whale shit, anything and everything that can harm anyone are anything is bad however, including your grandmother's knitting needles.

Don

Actually, law enforcement officials (police, courts) usually refer to ANY object used or attempted to be used to harm, threaten or otherwise cause damage or injury as a weapon. Whether it is a knife, gun, screwdriver or golf club. A deadly weapon is any weapon that can cause death, even your grandma’s knitting needles, but probably not toenail clippers.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:
I use the word firearm...

I guess it is being around too many liberals who act like the Words "Gun" or "Incest" Or 'pedophile' are about equal in the eyes of the public....

That is THEIR PROBLEM! Come on Seafire.

I live and work around the “People’s Republic of Eugene†and am well aware of how liberal crybabies over-react when you don’t pacify them. They believe everyone should kowtow to them. Appeasing them and their slanted belief system only makes them stronger!

quote:

Originally posted by HondoLane:
I voted yes, but the sad truth is that it shouldn't matter if it is a true weapon or not. The 2nd Amendment doesn't state that we have the right to bare arms that are solely intended for sporting use.

True weapon? A firearm IS A TRUE WEAPON!
Heck, I could kill somebody with my PELLET GUN.
I’m pretty sure any firearm I own can be used as a weapon…

quote:

Originally posted by Bob in TX:
I have the right, not the privilege, to own and use "weapons" to defend myself.
This has nothing to do with "sporting firearms".

Terms like "sporting firearms" are what led to "assault rifles".

Bob

Ah, yes, assault rifles. A whole ‘nother can-o-worms…

This is my rifle..
this is my gun...

This is for fighting
This is for fun..


Carry ON...

I see no negative conation in the word weapon or "wheapon" as the TV news people say.

Having served 27 years in Uncle Sams Military anything I used in Combat was a Weapon. My guns at home were Firearms. Just one of my quirks.

So I gave the "rats ass" reply. It realy doesn't matter what we call them, "the Liberals Hate them".

Best wishes, Bill

Weapons Did someone mention weapons ?.
An object in which bodily harm may result from it's use upon another living creature .

Call them what you will Gun Pistol Rifle Knife Baseball bat 12" cast Iron pan they all have their own particular usage .

How ever they also can be used to inflict harm if used inappropriately there fore have the potential of being a WEAPON !.

I prefer the Generic term " Weapon ".

Not Saturday night special or Assault Rifle or Automatic Assault Rifle ( being confused with 99% Semi Automatic Weapons ).

The Liberals never want to tell it like it is , they prefer to sensationalize in order to draw support for what ever the Days agenda might be !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

i dont think weapon is really a word.
i mean its accepted but anything used to cause injury could be a weapon. so to describe a ashtray as a weapon doesnt describe its true nature.
weapon is a word which must be classified first by perfect tenses. it must FIRST be used to cause injury OR it must be designed soley to cause injury.
a steak knife isnt a weapon until its used to injure, a bayonet , while almost identical, is a weapon.
So rifles, as a group, are weapons becasue the original design was as a tool to injure. same with handguns.

Only 48 % Amazing?? roger

We mustn’t kid ourselves, Sporting Arms are weapons. The US Constitution provides expressly for our right to keep and bear arms (read weapons). Those who want to infringe on this right will not be swayed by calling them “sporting armsâ€. We may fool ourselves that they see a difference… but they do not. All they see is a step in the process. To them the $3000.00 Double barrel shotgun is only 3 steps away from the “Saturday Night Specialâ€.
After all… once they outlaw hunting… why do you need “Sporting Arms�

The liberals hate our firearms, so it doesn't matter to THEM what we call our guns. I am not concerned about them. I am concerned about the ignorant neighbor/co-worker/friend having the word 'weapon' associated with my guns.

I work p/t at the gun counter of a large chain store and make it a point to say firearms, never weapons. I will also gently correct customers who use the 'weapons' word.

Words matter!

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
i dont think weapon is really a word.
i mean its accepted but anything used to cause injury could be a weapon. so to describe a ashtray as a weapon doesnt describe its true nature.
weapon is a word which must be classified first by perfect tenses. it must FIRST be used to cause injury OR it must be designed soley to cause injury.
a steak knife isnt a weapon until its used to injure, a bayonet , while almost identical, is a weapon.
So rifles, as a group, are weapons becasue the original design was as a tool to injure. same with handguns.

What??? Talk about all over the place.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
i dont think weapon is really a word.
i mean its accepted but anything used to cause injury could be a weapon. so to describe a ashtray as a weapon doesnt describe its true nature.

Well weapon is a word and it doesn’t matter about an objects “true nature.†The definition of weapon has to do with how it is used, not its originally intended or designed use.
If somebody beats you over the head with an ashtray, then by definition the ashtray was used as a weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
…weapon is a word which must be classified first by perfect tenses. it must FIRST be used to cause injury OR it must be designed soley to cause injury.
a steak knife isnt a weapon until its used to injure, a bayonet , while almost identical, is a weapon.

So rifles, as a group, are weapons becasue the original design was as a tool to injure. same with handguns.

So by you definition “Target Rifles†and “Target Pistols†are weapons, although they were originally designed to punch holes in paper?

Sorry, I’m not buying it.

ANYTHING that is

quote:

From Merriam-Webster:
used to injure, defeat, or destroy

would be a weapon at the time it is being used for that purpose.

Whether it be a steak knife, ashtray, or shovel, if it is

quote:

From Merriam-Webster:
used to injure, defeat, or destroy

it is by definition, a weapon.

Period.

Heres a couple of questions to ponder . Why did the Military use me as a weapon ?.
When I obtained 3rd. Degree black belt status I was required to register as a " Weapon " !. Potential lethal use of force by Hand !. Or Hand too Hand combat a person is considered a weapon .

This one is the real mind bender , my brain didn't have to be registered as a potential weapon !?. Although I killed far more of the enemy with it than I ever did with a Firearm !.

A person with 1 gallon of gas is far more dangerous " potentially " than any one with a firearm !. Yet gas can be sold to minors !??.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
... the word weapon perpetuates a certain amount of hysteria and is used for that purpose. Ergo--"Weapons of mass destruction."

A screw driver, baseball bat, tire wrench, and roller skate are not normally considered weapons but have been used as such.Yet no one on this or any forum calls them weapons. ...

Roller Skates of mass destruction does kind of "roll" right off the tongue.
-----

Hey AC, If you are still around, MARINES do not go AWOL. If they happen to be gone, they are considered UA(Unauthorized Absence).

I too voted yes because almost anything can be used as a "weapon"; however the word itself gives the anti's something to focus on. In the world around us, as hard as it is to accept, perception is reality. Doubt what I'm saying? Then what is an "assault" weapon in layman's eyes?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeMichalski:
I too voted yes because almost anything can be used as a "weapon"; however the word itself gives the anti's something to focus on. In the world around us, as hard as it is to accept, perception is reality. Doubt what I'm saying? Then what is an "assault" weapon in layman's eyes?

roger

Here in Michigan there is great distinction between weapon and firearm and as with most government and legal entities I am sure. I applied for CCW (Carrying a Cocealed Weapon) only to recieve a CPL (Concealed Pistol License). The CCW would have allowed me to carry knives with blades longer than 3", Battons, Sprays and other items considred weapons per the legal description. The license issued is exclusively for pistol, per the legal description. In short I believe that the grouping of "weapons" can describe sporting arms, but is not the best or most correct use, and would prefer rifle or carbine.
nitro450exp

I believe what ever one wishes to call a Firearm is his or hers business . I personally dislike the word assault in front of any firearm description . The very nature of the word coiners up the Idea of a personal attack . To be assaulted or bodily harm .

When each and every one of us knows NO FIREARM or WEAPON ever harmed anyone , that there wasn't another human being on the other end of the equation !.

A word changes little in the overall scheme of things !. Firearms ,Weapons ,Guns ,Pistols ,Knives are perceived to be EVIL and do EVIL . When in reality it's the perpetrator who is to blame .

Yet the society of liberal minded politicians want to punish the masses for the action of the guilty and at the very least pursue the manufactures for liability !??.

Some of the WORST Political candidates are now running for office !.

MONEY MONEY is what it's ALL ABOUT !.
How many people a year are killed in Automobile crashes ? Cancer Heart attacks ?. Yet there is HUGE MONEY to be made from those Items .

It all comes down to one simple thing .

Those with the ability to pay are always being punished for the actions of those without that ability !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by MikeMichalski:
I too voted yes because almost anything can be used as a "weapon"; however the word itself gives the anti's something to focus on. In the world around us, as hard as it is to accept, perception is reality. Doubt what I'm saying?
Then what is an "assault" weapon in layman's eyes?

Anything the anti-gun liberal media wants it to be.
Which is my point EXACTLY.

We as gun owners have a responsibility to correct the improper usage of words. Assault weapon is just about the most flagrantly misused word in the media today.

When I hear someone saying something as ridiculous as "the person used an assault weapon..." for instance,
I ASK them if they actually know what constitutes an ASSAULT weapon?
I have NEVER had anybody give the correct answer to this question, yet.
Because of the anti-gun bias in the liberal media, most people think nearly every firearm used in the commission of a crime is an assault weapon.

Then you school them!

Firearms are not dangerous, the anti-gun liberal media is!