Hey guys,
Here's the background info: my 12 y/o son has killed 4 whitetail deer the past 2 years using a youth load in his 308 Win (Blue Dot/125 gr NBT @2450 fps). Both he and the gun shoot the load very well. Thus far, he's always hunted in the same stand w/ me w/ shots inside 100 yards. This year, I'm considering letting him hunt in a stand by himself and opening up the range to 150 yards. I'd like to bump up the muzzle velocity to about 2600 fps to flatten the trajectory some. Here are the questions: 1. What bullet would you use? Is the 125 gr NBT still ok at this velocity or would you rec a different bullet (I have the Hornady 130 gr SP, as well, but he sure likes that green tipped bullet!) 2. What powder do you recommend? I think I'm pushing the velocity envelope of Blue Dot already. I know H4895 has had a lot of success w/ youth loads. I've read a lot about using IMR 4759 for reduced loads, but the IMR site no longer shows any data for this powder in the 308 Win. Thanks for your time and expertise. Gary T.

You can still run that 125grNBT at 2600fps w/ good results. H4895 is very forgiving w/ reduced loads. 2600fps would be easy, 38-39gr, good luck this fall.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/308win_y.php

I wouldn't be afraid to try some IMR 3031 either.

Well back in the reload download dept...

I think you can move up to a 150 grain ballistic tip.... I still think there are better alternatives to H 4895, which I think is way too inconsistent in its accuracy ( which I think sucks)... 3031 is a great powder, but it still will recoil much more...

SR 4759 or IMR 4227 or IMR 4198 will also make a dandy choice, as would Reloader 7....

if you want to punch it up to 2600 fps with a 150 grain Ballistic tip.. then 4198 or Re7 are going to be your two choices...35 grains of either should put you in the ballpark.. using large rifle primers...

a Speer 150 grain Mag tip will also work well as will a 150 Rem corelokt, or any 30/30 bullet...

300 Savage Data in a 308 case will give you 300 Savage results which are rated at 2600 fps with a 150 grain bullet.....

30 grains of IMR 4227 will give you about 2500 with a 150 grain bullet and the 2600 your are looking for with a 125 or 130 grainer...

Good luck...

cheers
seafire

Hey guys, Thanks for the suggestions. Don't have any 3031, RL 7, or 4198, but I do have 4159 and H4227. I've requestd the data manuel from IMR so maybe it'll have some info for 4759. Completely forgot about my "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook." Doesn't show any 4759 or 4227 loads w/ 122 gr bullets, but does show max of 26.8 gr 4759 (2332 fps) and 25.7 gr IMR 4227 (2237 fps) w/ 151 gr. cast bullets. Seafire, do you think I could carefully substitue Hodgdon 4227 for IMR 4227?
Don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, but have put to Nosler the question re: upper limits of muzzle velocity of the 125 gr BT at which it still will work as a deer bullet. I'll let you know what they say. Gary T.

Hey guys, It's been a while, but I thought I'd provided an update. Looks like I'll end up using the 125 gr NBT and H4895. I could never get enough loading data for me to be confident using IMR 4759 (no reduced loads in their latest data manuel w/ this powder in 308 Win) or 4227. In addition, I was starting to feel pressured due to self-imposed "deadline." I also shot the 150 gr NBT, and although it was quite accurate, the recoil was noticably more w/ it than w/ the 125 gr NBT> The 130 gr Hornady/H4895would probably be a servicable load if I played around w/ it some, but the 125 gr NBT looks too good to turn it away. Using IMI Match brass, Rem 9 1/2 primers, H4895/3-9 Bushnell scope, I got the following 3 shot groups at 100 yards today:
39.5 gr/mv 2503 fps/0.61"
40.5 gr/mv 2582 fps/0.63"
I'm going to pursue the 40.5 gr load as my goal was 2600 fps. After more research, I think the 125 gr NBT should perform well enough on game at the intended velociy. Strangely, I sent an email to Nosler twice asking their advice on the 125 gr BT, but they never responded. I also sent two email to Vihtavuori about using some of their powders for this, but they failed to respond, as well. My big challenge now may be finding the bullet as most everyone (except Widener's) seems to be out. Thanks for the help! Gary T.

Gary,

I didn't see this post continue earlier....

As far as substituting H 4227 for IMR 4227, that is fine, but I think you will find H 4227 as less accurate.... however, Hodgdon is planning on Canning the Name H 4227, and Can the Powder called IMR 4227.....They are now going to bottle H 4227, and sell it as IMR 4227... basically because IMR's name sells better than Hodgdon in that powder's number... but they get the H 4227 from ADI down in Oz...

SR 4759, you can start out at 25 grains and work up to about 30 grains or so for an accurate load in the 308....I have used it down to 15 grains with excellent results....

and the ballistic tips useful range is from 1500 fps to about 2800 fps.. before they start exploding on contact...

cheers and good luck..
seafire

40gr varget and 165gr bullets

Seafire, Thanks for the suggestions. Since H4985/125 gr NBT is shooting so well, I'm going to go w/ it for now. On the other hand, during the off-season when I play around w/ some other 30 cal 125-130 grain bullets, I'll be sure to try your suggestions. Gary T.

Gary T
You probably know this, but Remington and Federal make low recoil loads for the 308, and the 30-06, as wsell as some others.
I have used the Federal load in my 30-06 drilling to take 2 wild pigs. The bullets are 170 grains and are designed to perform at the velocity of 2000fps. The did an excellent job on the pigs I shot. Recoil is very low.

Gary
It sounds like you are right on track.
I am a big fan of lighter bullet and less powder for youth loads. For a couple years I've been working at it with my son and his .284 Win and 130 grain Speer bullets. We started off with H4895 and since then he has been asking for more power, I tried bumping up the load but H4895 wasn't giving us the accuracy so I switched to IMR-4350 and 4064 which is now printing .75" groups and doing about 2600 fps with the 130 grain Speer. He has a buck tag and a Cow Elk tag so we'll see how they work in a few weeks.
If you are getting that kind of accuracy at 2500 fps from H4895 I would sure stay with it and make the change next year as the boy gets bigger.
Good luck and great to see other dads out there fine tuning that kids load like me, my son and I have had great times at the range for several years now with that "work". This year he has fired about 300 rounds + out of his .284 working on loads and getting ready for our hunts.
Post pictures of you and your boys successes this year!

Remingtons Managed Recoil Loads that I have disected appear to be using IMR 4198 for powder...In their 30/06 which I just dissected the other night, it was 35 grains of IMR 4198 and a 125 grain SP Corelokt...

I loaded some up and chronographed them and the Managed Recoil factory stuff and the velocity was spot on...

If one wants to duplicate those, if accuracy is not real good, substitute the same powder amount and use Reloader 7 instead...

Hope that info can be of use to some out there...

cheers
seafire

NE, I'm aware of the factory reduced loads now available, but when I bought my son's 308 2 years ago, they were just starting to hit the market; consequently, I went the present route. This way I also get to make up some practice loads for him.
Snellstrom, thanks for the kind and encouraging words; it's frequently frustrating raising children....
Seafire, thanks again for your recs.
According to the following emaii response Nosler sent me 10/4/06, I think I should be okay w/ the 125 gr NBT w/ muzzle velocity 2600 fps:
"Your velocity will be just fine. Out of a 308 the only concern that you will have is the minimum impact velocity. It needs to be above 1600fps for reliable expansion."
Regards,
Nosler, Inc.
Gary T.