I use to handload decades ago, but I became too busy and too lazy to be bothered with reloading, and I gave away all my loading stuff years ago.

I recently bought a classic custom rifle made before 1930 by A.O. Neidner. The bullet portion of the chambercast measures .257, but the seller included an empty .257 Roberts cartridge which did not chamber. The logical conclusion is that this rifle is chambered for the pre-1934 commercial .257 Roberts wildcat cartridge.

The books say that the .257 Roberts was loaded by necking down 7x57 brass. The wildcat version had a 15 degree shoulder. Remington changed that to 20 degrees.

CH4D had a set of dies believed to be for the wildcat .257. And I now have them on hand.

I've never loaded a wildcat cartridge. How do I proceed? Do I neck down 7x57 cases?

quote:

The books say that the .257 Roberts was loaded by necking down 7x57 brass. The wildcat version had a 15 degree shoulder. Remington changed that to 20 degrees

If the only difference between the wildcat version and the factory 257 is the wildcat has less taper your dies should simply reform the factory 257. If you wanted to use 7x57 brass assuming you don't have a chamber neck dia issue then you should just run the brass through your die. With 7x57 reducing the neck dia will grow the neck length so check to see if you need to trim.

According to the drawings I have, both the 7x57 and the .257 Roberts have identical 20.45 degree shoulders (and are identical in all other dimensions, other than the neck, also.)

The dies from CH4D are likely for an Ackley Improved .257 and would be of no help to you.

If you did a chamber cast then you should be able to find all of the dimensions of the chamber and match them to a known cartridge.

If your chamber is truly a one-of-a-kind, then you'll need to squeeze down an appropriate brass case, actually about three of them, to the point that they will enter the chamber and allow the bolt to close. Load them with a "starting" load for the .257 Roberts with some well-behaved powder like H4895 and fire them. Most die companies will make you a custom set of dies to match your chamber working from the three fired cartridges.

When I inquired about custom dies for the .257 wildcat version, Dave Davison, the owner of CH4D, said that he thought he remembered making thedies once, decades ago. If he had made them, he said, he always made two sets of any dies he was making for the first time.

He left me on the phone, and went off for a few minutes. He returned, and said: Yes, there there were right on the shelf, and there was a note saying that the order came from a guywho owned a 1930s Neidner rifle.

We agreed that the chances were good that these would be the right dies.

I hope you went out and bought a Lottery ticket that same day as you could not be any luckier.
What are the odd of having all that fall into place after all these years.

:-)))

GAry

quote:

Originally posted by David Zincavage:


I've never loaded a wildcat cartridge. How do I proceed? Do I neck down 7x57 cases?

You do know what to do at this point, yes?

I think the odds are overwhelming that my rifle is chambered for the .25 Roberts cartridge. I have .25 Roberts dies from CH4D, and I am gradually gathering tools and components. I've ordered 87 and 100 grain spitzer bullets. I plan to neck down (and trim) 7x57 cases. I could use powder recommendations, and comments on possible Mann-Neidner chambering.

"Many of the Niedner chambered rifles have what is called a Mann-Niedner chamber which is a very tight chamber so you must use a little caution when loading for it if that is a the case. Most Mann-Niedner chambers are so tight that the case never needs resizing."

"Extra caution should always be used when working with a Niedner rifle that could have a tight chamber."

The barrel was made by Sukalle, so I'm not sure if I'm dealing with Mann-Neidner chamber.

O.K. Look, you do not have much of a wildcat... Tiny variations in the neck angle... Look at the difference in 7x57 or any other funnel shaped case and the Ackely improved with 40 degree shoulder. That is CHANGE.

I would start at the "starting loads" for older .257 loads and work up carefully, which is what you should do loading any cartridge. (Yes, I know, the young hate advice like this. I felt that way long ago.)

Harvey Donaldson in book available thru Wolf Pub/ Phoenix AZ, said Ned Roberts wanted to be a competitive shooter very, very bad but his eyes were not good enough for the sights of the day. His improvement was to neck down the 7x57 to .25 and make the shoulder angle less steep. Todays powders were not yet developed. It caught on and Remington took it over but left the shoulder angle the same as the the factory 7x57 loading.

If you have this less steep shoulder it is my guess from very limited experience with old rounds, faster powders might preform better for you. MIGHT. Each gun is a law unto itself and you have to figure it out. The fun/ challange, etc. LUCK. Happy Holidays. Happy Trails.