I've just taken possesion of my new rifle.

It's on a M700 action with a HB and a McMillan stock..In 22-250AI

I'm not convinced I WANT moly...but as I've never bothered with it in hunting rifles, I have no idea if I DO want it in a varmit/coyote rifle...

I really am not sold that the added work and cost is worth it....YET!

Gate House - I have used moly for over 10 years in my high volume varmint and target rifles. It certainly helps control throat erosion. It is no short cut for cleaning, but, it is safe to use and provides many benefits. I don�t recommend it for light volume hunting calibers, but for high volume shooting, it's tough to beat...



It is highly recommended to shoot a minimum of 50 to 75 rounds through your bore with naked bullets before switching to moly. Before switching to moly, make sure ALL the copper is removed from your bore.

zero drift got it right- it has some benifits in some(limited) applications.

Gatehouse, you might be interested in this site www.bbsindustries.com go to technical information then to severe fouling article.
I have a barrel on my bench gun I've used exclusively moly with. I've found no advantage with it myself, and more hassle cleaning.

I see allot of guys using moly improperly at the range:

1) They spray aerosol moly on bullets that are already seated, don't wait for the moly to dry, and then shoot them.

2) They rub moly bore paste on seated bullets and then shoot them.

3) They shoot 100 non moly bullets and then without getting all the copper out of the barrel first, start shooting moly bullets.

4) They spray aerosol moly up the bore.



What they SHOULD be doing is:

1) Start with a bore that has a smooth and copper free. Rough bores will cut right through the moly and scrape off copper that will cut right through the moly and ...

2) Burnish the bore with moly bore paste on a patch before shooting.

3) Shoot only moly coated and dry bullets.



If done right, it moly means cleaning the gun for 3 minutes every 50 shots instead of cleaning the gun for 10 minutes every 10 shots to keep .5 moa accuracy.



--

A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

I have read several articles on the erosion of moly. The articles had good pictures showing the erosion in different climates. The real jist of the articles was that if you hunt in any moist environments that you dont need to use moly. They said that it is not good for hunting rifles but, would be good for high volume target shooting in a dry environment.

Since it sounds like you are going to use your rifle for hunting, you might want to stay away from moly. Its not worth it to risk erosion to your nice rifle.

Here in Louisiana the climate is very humid so, you dont see many folks using moly. I have seen some substitutes but, I am not sure of their performance.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Ditto Hot Core - Many years ago there was a lot of range gossip regarding moly breaking down and forming some mysterious acid which aggressively ate bores. After tens of millions of rounds shot using moly, two things are for certain 1. It is totally safe when used properly 2. It does provide certain benefits. Moly is no shortcut for cleaning. You must still properly clean and care for your bore.



I have a very long rundown on moly use and moly cleaning if anyone is interested. It is very long, but has some useful observations.

Hot core,

This is the only info I have at this time but, I used to have an article that showed the results in several pictures.

If you clean w/ a good inhibitor while still at the range, it will probably inhibit the moly from eroding the firearm but, if the firearm is taken from a hot day at the range into an airconditioned area, the moisture can cause the acid to form.

It seems like w/ some of the other coatings available you could get similar performance w/ less worry.

"Any moly is corrosive if it does not contain an inhibitor to neutralize the naturally occurring acidic quality of the moly. Dry moly is particularly bad as it is chemically impossible to add an inhibitor to dry moly. Even the most highly refined and pure moly will contain (among other compounds/elements) some Sulfur and Sulfur Dioxide (S02). When the Sulfur or Sulfur Dioxide is exposed to the humidity in air, it combines with water vapor to form Sulfuric Acid (H2S04) which then immediately attacks any metal. The higher the humidity the more acid is formed and the more corrosion which takes place. One cannot detect this corrosion by simple examination as it takes place between the moly crystal and the substrate and is hidden by the moly crystal covering it. Corrosion can only be seen by first removing all moly thereby exposing the corrosion to view. Those who fire bullets coated with dry moly will have little corrosion as long as firing is being done as the heat from firing drives off the moisture. However, as soon as a firing session stops and there upon cools down, water vapor will begin to be absorbed by the moly and corrosion begins. And, the longer between firing sessions, the more corrosion which will take place. The corrosive properties of uninhibited or dry moly have been well documented by military testing as far back as 1968. (Shooter's News, April 1999)"


Good Luck!

Reloader

The way to check for moly corrosion is to look in the 1/4" of muzzle that can be seen with close to a normal angle. The corrosion will look red, and not copper or gold color like from copper fouling. I had this a few times, and traced it to leaving allot of moly bore paste in the bore, and blasting it out of there with a real hot round. The two ways of preventing this are; 1) push out the excess paste with a patch 2) clean the bore at the end of the day with a caustic solution [baking soda and water]. The odd thing about red bore, is that it can form under oil if the rifle is in the car over night. I don't know how the moisture gets through oil, but it does.

Clark,

I find that some have experienced accuracy problems and loss of speed w/ the moly. Whats your opinion on that?

Reloader

The loss in velocity is due to a lower chamber pressure/ powder burn rate which is caused by lower friction between the bullet and bore. By using a chronograph, you can work your loads back up to max velocity. You will generally use higher than published charge weights, however, you will generally experience lower peak chamber pressures and higher velocities.

In regards to accuracy, moly alters the barrel harmonic. It tends to dampen extreme whips in the barrel movement. As a result, you need to work your loads to achieve the best bullet exit. Nothing different than with naked bullets, however, it is generally easier to find the sweet spot with moly.

Hey Reloader, I do appreciate your going to the effort to wham all that info in for us. Must admit it does "look" like a bad thing when you read that.



Do not take this as arguing with you when I say that I've just never experienced a problem with Moly. (Well, there was a "getting it onto the Bullet" learning curve for me since all the info about how to get it peened into the Bullets wasn't available when I first started with it.)



I'm also believe what Clark has to say about the Red Streaks, but I've just not seen them either. And "under oil"! There are some folks who post on here that I'd have an extremely difficult time believing that, but I've no reason to doubt Clark.



It just seems that Zero Drift and I have had a totally different experience. It would be nice to be able to have a "believeable" explaination as to why we don't see a problem, and the only thing I can track it to is perhaps we do something different in our Cleaning sequence.



Granted, it doesn't take much "cleaning" at all in my bores. And I do use a Moly Grease after cleaning and then run a couple of dry patches to remove any excess.



Hey ZD, I tumble my bullets in corn cob treated with Carnuba for 60sec after getting the MOS2 peened in, do you? Maybe the Carnuba is doing something to prevent the Red Streaks.



Hey Clark, How `bout you? Do you Carnuba?



I've been wanting to run a Test for a couple of years now in a Virgin Rifle(non-Molyed)with bullets that have no MOS2, but get the Carnuba treatment. I may have the chance this Spring with two rifles. It will take awhile for me to come to a conclusion, so don't anyone sit around holding your breath.

Hot Core - I don�t have the patience to coat my own. I have been a Walt Berger fan for a long time. Fortunately, my target and varmint rifles also seem to like Walt a lot so, I just feed them a steady diet of Berger coated bullets. I know a few who still coat and they peen with steel shot and coat with carnauba. The only real trick is to fully de-grease the bullets before starting.



I used to do the long range target thing and briefly played around in F-Class. During my serious LR target shooting days, I knew a bunch of competitive shooters from around the country, including Walt Burger, who shot nothing but moly. Not ONE in the bunch ever reported any problems.



I use Butch�s Bore Shine in between strings of 30 - 50 and at home I soak the bore with BBS for awhile, followed by a few clean patches. I finish with a light coat of Kroil and store the rifle muzzle down for a few days. Before the next shoot, I run a few clean patches through and I am ready. By following this routine, I have avoided the throat buildup common with shooting moly. In addition, I do not need to really scrub with JB and re-moly the tube.



I use a Hawkeye bore scope to monitor throat erosion and bore condition. I scope my high volume rifles every few months when I was shooting a lot. I can assure you that I have never seen the first problem with moly and certainly no corrosion. I have been able to increase the total number of rounds shot by 50% or better in 7 rifles. This translates to considerable re-barreling savings each year.

I tried spraying my own moly bullets, but I couldn't stand the fumes.



I bought Berger moly bullets and got great results [at 25 cents a shot].



Then I got Vmax moly bullets and got great groups [at 15 cents a shot]



Then I got Vmax bullets not made in moly and had Russ Hayden coat them for me [ 2 cents extra a shot]



Then I got some blems at Lock stock and Barrel [ 3 cents a shot + 2 cents for Russ moly coating them = 5 cents a shot]



I don't know how much lower I can slide, but the the 5 cent moly bullets are getting me great groups, and I have a couple thousand of them to shoot up

Clark - If it works, don�t change a thing!!! That's a great deal.

Hot Core - The throat fouling you see with moly is largely carbon/powder fouling. You can get the same with jacketed bullets if you don�t bother the clean your bore. In addition, most moly shooters tend to shoot a hotter barrel which only accelerates throat fouling.

As far as other coatings, folks have been experimenting with lots of dry lubricants for many years. Barnes (Blue coating) & Nosler (Lubalox) both have tried dry lubricants with only marginal results. Barnes did it to help control their miserable jacket fouling and it seems to work pretty well. The Lubalox coating from Nosler didn�t do much.

The reason why moly works is because it is largely impervious to extreme heat, pressure, and friction. Things like Teflon burn under pressure so very few compounds can withstand the environment associated with firearms. MOS2 simply works where nothing has before.

I am pleased with the performance of moly, so I would be hard pressed to move to something else. Remember, if someone came up with a slicker material, the net result will be even lower chamber pressures and higher powder charge weights. My long throated 6.5-284's are getting near maximum load densities/throw weights already with moly. I would be hard pressed to add more powder without changing to a quicker burn, then my barrel harmonics are off and then I am starting from scratch once again.

Maybe I need to rethink my decision to not use moly.

I had problems with inconsistency when using " Ms. Moly " This is the brand name of a spray on coating. Maybe it was the brand and not the moly ?

This much I do know for sure, choose which you want moly vs. plain in large batches. The switching back and forth thing will drive you nucking futz, a changing coat of moly does nothing for consistancy.

Anybody experiment with adding moly powder to their powder ?
I always wondered if that would work, moly is not supposed to have any effect on powder in casual contact. Not sure how much you could add before the moly would coat the powder too much, changing it's burn rate.

Travis F.