I just ordered this book from the alibris online store. Does anyone have this book? Just wondering if I made a good buy... I'm especially interested in the 375 H&H information. All comments are welcome.

Best Regards,

Enigma

P.S. I also posted in "Books And Videos Of Interest" but not much action in that forum.

Hagels loads are HOT. But the book is still a must have.

Lots of great info by one of the most underrated gun-writers of our time, but take his load data with a bit of caution.

I would be scared to try using Hagel's load data, but the book is full of great information. I think you made a good buy.

Is Bob Hagel still alive or is he gone up to the heavens? I am really anxious to get the book!!!

Enigma
It is a great book.
As others have said his load data is hot.
He was not that big on the 375 H&H as when he wrote the book there were no "good" bullets being made for it at that time.
He is a BIG fan of the Nosler Partitions.

Thank you very much for your information. When you say his loads are hot, do you mean dangerously hot. Have any on you guys tried his loads?

Cheers,

Enigma

I don't believe Hagel's loads were quite as hot as many make out . Probably no hotter than factory WSM ammuniton . It has become fashionable to be ultra cautious about following book data in recent years or using electro gizmos to "calculate" pressure, but handloaders have been using Hagels methods for working up loads for eons and we've all still got our faces and hands .

Also take into account that Hagel was using actual sporting rifles to work up loads , rather than minimum spec pressure barrels . And all rilfe barrels are individuals.....

Hey Enigma, It is a great book by a true Reloading Master. Lots of excellent information in it in addition to Reloading Tips and Techniques.

Just flipped mine open to look at the 375H&H Loads and they are a lot higher than I'd expected. The book was written back in 1978 and it is important to understand a lot of things have changed since back then. Some of the Powders listed are no longer available and some have slightly shifted in Burning Rate. It is always best to use the most current Reloading Manuals available for actual Load Data to get started.

However, if you will "read" all the rest of the book and pay close attention to what he mentions about Pressure, and how to detect it, you will get a lot of great information.

Here is something that Hot Core and I agree on, totally, Bob Hagel has been my favourite gun writer for over 30 years and I have enormous respect for his experience and real knowledge. I wish that I had known him personally and hope that he is still alive and well, although he must be getting pretty old.

It has become fashionable among all too many gunwriters today to denigrate and dismiss Hagel's work and loads; this is, IMHO, based upon jealousy and a desire to advance their own careers at the expense of what HC correctly calls ...a true reloading master... Bob Hagel, as a guide, hunter, bushman and rifle EXPERT has been equalled by none of the recent crop of gunwriters, most of whom are urban journalists whose expertise comes from guided hunts and free or loaner rifles tested on electronic gizmos ( which vary in their readings according to the user), rather than decades of hard field experience.

The only gun writers that I admire as much are the late Finn Aagard and the current Phil Shoemaker whose bear writing in particular is absolutely the finest I have ever read, after 49 yrs. living in Grizzly country. I wish that Hagel could be cloned, so, I could continue to read his outstanding work.

When I say they are HOT what I mean is that while they worked in his rifles, I wouldn't necessarily trust them to be safe in mine. Example: 300 grain Nosler @ 2750fps??

And I do believe that he actually shot the loads he claimed, something I am not so sure about other writers.

Last I heard he was alive but in ill health.

Too bad for us, as Kutenay wrote, like Aagaard and Shoemaker, Hagel actually lived it instead of just writing about it.

Bob Hagel and Aagaard and indeed two of the best gun writers ever. I rate both way above O'Connor for instance but not to argue as thats just my feeling having read them all.

Hagel may have loaded hot but he also said that each rifle is an individual.

Enjoy the book.

Hagel is still the best.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3623/is_200008/ai_n8923112

McCray,

Did you say a 300gr partition at 2750fps...!!! Is that out of a 375 H&H? My god, must be a long barrel and a really really really slow burning powder! I don't think I would have the guts to try that one I'm very interested in learning the methods he used to determine pressure. I only have a dial caliper at this time but I will purchase a digital version very soon.

Enigma

I am also wondering if anyone of you guys have experience with compressed charges of H4350 in a H&H case? I remember reading a thread where Mr. Atkinson mentioned the dangers or compressed loads in hot climates (Africa). Is that a bad idea I have to cram that much H4350 in my case and compress the load? I would be interested in real life experience.

Enigma

You just bought an excellent book. Full of useful and practical information. I agree with others who caution the use of Hagel's loads. Definitely a bit on the hot side in some cases.

-Lou

I believe Bob Hagel is still alive, but in very poor health. The last article he wrote in RIFLE Magazine was his farewell to his readers. He did not go into great detail, but said he was suffering from very powerful headaches that were so prolonged he could not work any more.

I have the first edition of his book, and yes, the loads are very high pressure. Most of them were originally in RIFLE or HANDLOADER Magazines, and in one case, a certain detail was left out. In his data for the .308 Winchester, the fact that the rifle used had along thoat, amounting to a case of freebore in not mentioned in the book. Second, in the first book, probably 90 percent of the powders he used are no longer available. I understand there is a revised second edition, but I haven't seen a copy.
One of his articles did capture my interest though. It was "Spry Septugenarian, the 30-06". He explained that the 30-06 was not loaded to it's full potential and worked up a series of loads to prove the point. I had several rifles in 30-06 at the time, but I never could reach the levels he did in his guns. The 4831 he eused was, I believe the original Hodgden's surplus, so the newer Hodgden's might be a bit faster, and IMR 4831 is definitely faster. Without digging up the article, I believe that IMR-4350 is about the olny powder he used that's still on the market. I'm going on memory here on that, and sometime it ain't so good, but I think I'm right on that one.
Paul B.

Yep..375 H&H, 24 inch barrel. That load was with N205 but he also has a 4350 and a N204 load all over 2700 fps.

Yikes!

He used brass expansion. So he often advocated "harder" Winchester brass so he could go hotter and still not see the expansion.

And I don't remember exactly how he was reading the velocity. Makes me wonder about the accuracy of his chrono.