I'm about to start trying to find an accurate and powerful load for my 357mag GP-100 in anticipation for next deer season.
I have decided on using Hornady XTP's, others don't penetrate enough or don't expand at all, others are just too expensive (Nosler Partition).

What I'd like to know from you all:
-I have read reports of broadside through and throughs on medium deer (the kind around where I live) with 140gr XTPs driven by near max loads. I would still use the 158 gr or 180gr to ensure sufficient penetration. Knowing that even the 140gr will go all the way through, should I go with the 158gr to gain around 100-200fps?

-I bought a box of the 180's and inside is a piece of paper that shows impact velocities that are optimum for each bullet. The 180gr ideal impact velocity is 1000-1750 fps.
In a ballistics calculator I ran the 180gr@1150 fps muzzle velocity and it doesn't drop down below 1000 until 125 yards, much farther (3 times farther in fact) than I am comfortable shooting at
The ideal impact velocity for the 158 gr is 700-1400 fps. At 1250 fps it will stay above 1000 fps father than 150yards.
It seems like the 158gr is a little more forgiving, but at the range I'll be hunting at I will still be within optimum velocities for both. Should I pick a bullet that I can safely drive at the faster end of its optimum velocity?
Should this ideal impact velocity be of any concern to me?

-I'm using Blue Dot right now, what powders have you all found to be accurate at near max loads in a .357? I will pick up some H110 sometime because many seem to like it in 357mag.

-Anyone have comments about LIL'GUN in .357mag with 158 or 180gr bullets? It seems as though lilgun gets at least as good velocities as H110 at much lower pressures so I wonder why it isn't as popular.
-Have any of you had experience hunting with .357 XTP's or shooting with them in general?

Thanks for any input.
I know 357 is considered marginal by many, but I understand the cartridge's limitations and my own limitations. Right now I can put a cylinder full into a plate sized target at 50 yards with factory sights, but in the field I wouldn't trust myself to anything farther than 35 in an ideal position and 25 if I don't feel completely confident.

YOu are onto the right bullet choice with a Hornady XTP. Instead of getting hung on velocity, I'd take some handloads out and shoot some of those XTPs into some test media. Just good old woood from a tree out in the woods will tell you a lot IMHO.

The XTP is an excellent bullet, and then the next best thing instead of velocity is shot placement.
Those type of bullets are so lacking in any aerodynamic quality, is that 200 fps more MV is going to yield more recoil and 10 ft point blank range..... So why bother.

Personally I use blue dot in a lot of rifle downloads and it is one of the most consistent pwoders with minimal STD deviation spread that I have ever tested. I'd stick with it.

Good luck on your quest.
cheers
seafire

So you're saying that it doesn't really matter between the 158 and 180gr?

I understand that shot placement is the biggest factor, especially with the 357. I figure it will be like bow hunting, put a hole in the animal's lungs and hope I hit the heart too and it doesn't run far.
As relatively underpowered as the gun is I guess I'm just trying to get every possible miniscule advantage as I can.
Recoil is no problem, as hot as it's loaded it's not like it's a 454.

I may load the 158 simply because I can get (and already have) cheaper bulk 158 bullets to practice with without having to adjust my sights too much for the XTP's.

In your (or anyone else's) experience, are the POI between 158 and 180 gr bullets a lot different?

Gold Dot makes a 170 gr flat point bullet they are cheap and good. I got complete penetration on a buck about 50 yards away. Double lung then through the off side shoulder, no bone was hit.

I would go with the 180 gr bullets other than the 158's.

I use IMR 4227 in my 357 mag pistol with 180 gr Horn XTP's, good accuracy, no deer taken with it yet.

I would also recommend Lil Gun with the heavier bullets. I use 15 gr of Lil Gun with my 170 gr Gold Dots, and 200 gr cast bullets, in my 357 mag rifle, you will want to start lower than this of course, for safety sake.

Thanks for the info guys.

Blammer, what kind of velocity do you get with the 170gr GD's and the 180gr XTP's?
Also, I see you're from Ashville. Have you ever hunted those russian black boars? I'd like to do that one day though I know nothing about hog hunting.
I live in Raleigh.

My preference for hunting with the .357 is a 180 gr. Cast Core factory load from Federal.

Jeff

I would by a bigger pistol, you can find a nice .44 mag model 629 for about 350, around the range or a GP100. The weight will bring down the recoil or you can just load the shells to a .44 special.

Fumbler,

Those 158s will work great! I have taken a pile of hogs w/ my S+W 586 and the 158 JHPs.

Penetration shouldn't be a problem. I shot a small boar (80#) at 40 yards quartering towards me, the bullet went in right behind the shoulder and exited in front of the rear ham. He ran about 30 yards and piled up.

I shot a nice trophy boar (350#) at 25 yards (running) w/ the 158 JHPs, the bullet entered in front of the shoulder in the base of the neck and broke the neck but, didn't exit the off side hide. That big boy dropped on the spot, I couldn't have asked for any more from a pistol bullet.

You asked about Lil' Gun, Great Stuff! I like 15 grn pushing my 158s you can go as much as 18 grn but, she starts to buck pretty hard at those max loads (accuracy falls off too). 15 grns should give you 1400-1500 depending on bbl length. On a good day W/ 15grns of Lil' Gun and Win 158 grn JHPs, I can put 5 in a 3" circle at 40 yards w/ open sights.

I have shot off the bench at 50 w/ the 158s and acheived descent groups but, I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting a deer unless he was 30 or less.

I just loaded two boxes of 158 XTPs/15 g Lil' Gun earlier this week but, this is my first try w/ the XTPs in that pistol. I'll let you know how they do at the range this weekend.

I think I'm going to start toting it during deer season and fill a couple of doe tags.

You may find the 180s to be more accurate but, you don't need them if all you are hunting is whitetails.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Fumbler,

I got my first deer with my GP100 this year. Upon the advice of the Techs. at Hornady, I used their 140gr XTP (factory) load.
My shot presentation was less then perfect. It was straight on. My bullet entered just to the right of the sternum and penetrated, throught the heart, and one lung. Then exited the rear of the rib cage on the way out. breaking 3 ribs on the way out!
I would go with the 140gr or 158gr. I see no need to give up the velocity for the 180gr.
Deer just aren't all that tuff to bring down.

When I use the .357 for hunting this is my favorite load:


6-shots @ 75 yards
Bullet: Sierra 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Cavity
Powder: 14.5 grains of 2400
Primer: CCI Small Pistol Magnum 550
Case: Remington
Firearm: Ruger BN-36-X, 6-1/2" barrel
Sights: Factory open sights
Velocity: 1222 FPS @ 15' from muzzle

I limit the .357 to 75 yards, for anything further than 75, out to 100-110, I use a .44 Magnum.

I shot a little buck with a 110 JHP factory load. It was around 85yds, went in behind the sholder, took out both lungs and ended up in the off side sholder. Went about 30-40yds max and was dead leaning against a tree. the bullet still weighed 110gns. I've seen deer run much farther when hit by a 280Rem.
I would think the 158's would be fine. The GP-100 is a strong gun. I would load them to where ever the best accuracy comes in. Then just shoot it alot. You can practice on milk jugs or 2liter bottles at 50 and 100yds. Take some 150yds shots just to see where it hits.
I like the Elmer Keith position of leaning against a tree with my fore arms on my knee's. My Son and I were at the range the other day with the 45 blackhawks and were hitting pieces of clay pidgoens off the 100yd berm.
Practice, try to extend your range and get comfortable with your gun.
You should have pleanty of gun for medium sized deer. No texas heart shots though. IMHO

Oh, one more thing. I really like Bluedot in the 357. I get more velocity than 296 with less recoil and less muzzle flash.

I was lucky having been able to test the first IMPALA handgun bullets on targets and on game.
Forget everything else! These leightweight solids not only outperform any other handgun bullet in the accuracy and penetration dept., they do also an excellent job on game. I killed 3 wild boar in the 200lb range with the 110gr slug with a .357Mag ( 1800+fps from 8-3/8" barrel). always complete penetration, even on raking shots. None of the pigs made it more than 30 yards after beeing hit. Lungs looked like hit with a rifle bullet. See www.impalabullets.at for more info.

I'd use the 180gr Nosler Partition in a maximum loading if I were using the .357 Mag in either handgun or carbine.

Got a S&W Model 27 w/ 8 3/8 barrel,have killed 4 deer and 3 wild hogs with it. I use Hornady xtp bullets in the 125gr & 158gr. BOTH seem to work well.I use the max load in 2400 in mine. Or Win 296 powder. They i mean all the game went down like a ton of bricks had hit them. vangunsmith

Thanks for the info guys, I'll check out the impala bullets.

Lar45, what primers do you use with Blue Dot?
I loaded some up with 158 gr JHP and got flat primers at only 10.3gr with WSPM primers.
Alliant lists max of 10.7gr.

I loaded them again but with WSP primers and got up to 11.0 gr with no signs of over pressure. I did not load more than 11gr.
Speer #11 says max load is 13.0gr and starting load is 11gr. Many people say Speer #11 is incorrect, but they always fail to mention that Speer uses standard primers and Alliant uses magnum primers.

Fumbler,

I tried some Lil' Gun w/ the 158 XTPs this afternoon. They didn't shoot as good as the Sierra or the cheap Win JHPs do w/ that powder but, they still shot ok at 25 yards.

I think I'll try them w/ Herco next time out.

Good Luck!

Reloader