crushed shoulders 416 Rigby

02 February 2009, 02:32

I'm just starting to load some test loads for my 416 Rigby. I'm loading Barnes banded solids, 400gr.
After the first half dozen with 98gr RL22, which went well,, as soon as I went up to 100 gr the shoulders started crushing on bullet seating.
I reset the die using the dummy round I had created for crimp and bullet seating depth. No better.
Is there something about loading solids that can cause this to happen? It's my first effort with machined, monometallic bullets. They seem a little stiff to seat.

02 February 2009, 02:42

kraky

I have no experience with your caliber but can't imagine how a change in powder charge would have anything to do with the problem. I don't want to sound crazy but here would be my ideas.
1. be darn sure the seating die isn't trying to crimp as you are seating. Turn it up at least a half a turn and put the seating stem down more.
2...get a really good chamfer inside the case mouth.
3. how much bullet grip do you have...I would say anything .004" under the bullet width would start causing some hard seating. You can sometimes help excessive grip by running the case over the expander a couple times when withdrawing from fl sizing.

02 February 2009, 04:32

Peter

I have loaded a couple of hundred 416 Rigby's without a problem. Suggestions:
First set the die to NOT crimp ie. turn the body of the die "up" a full half turn or more, then set the seating depth.
Second, is this new brass? If not check the length of the cases. They may have stretched.
I have loaded quite a few GS Custom monometals without a problem.
Peter.

02 February 2009, 16:31

jeffeosso

your neck isn't expanded, for some reason.

02 February 2009, 19:31

Frank Martinez

Did you trim your brass to length. If not your crimp is catching the brass and pushing it back.
Unless you are using a multi die plate, even changing from expander to seater can be a different length.
Did you chamfer the mouth? Did you bell the mouth enough?

When I load for most of my cartridges, I try to run a minimum of 100 rounds through each step of the process. Then when I want to quickly load additional loads that are shooting well for me I have brass as nearly like the past loads as possible.
Frank

02 February 2009, 20:48

Larry Gibson

There is some flex in the dies from tolerances. I'm assuming that 100 gr load is a compression load because this only occurs to me when I am seating and crimping in the same operation and usign a pretty stout compressed load. What is happening with such loads is the crimping shoulder is begining to crimp the case mouth before the canelure is seated deep enough. Try adjusting the seating stem in a little farther (at least the width of the canelure groove). If that doesn't work then you must seat and crimp in two seperate operations.

Larry Gibson

04 February 2009, 05:34

Marty

Thanks, everyone. I had been trying to seat and crimp in one operation.
I spoke with Wade at Barnes today, and he said that the bands on that bullet are so sharp that good chamfering if not belling are required.
Also, this may be more problematic with a compressed load. I will likely go to another powder.
Does anyone know where I can buy a belling die for the 416? Pacific doesn't make one, and I couldn't get anyone to pick up at RCBS today. I have two sets of dies for my 470, one from CH4 and one from RCBS. The CH4 came as a three die set, one for flaring. The RCBS did not. I may need to get one of these if I want to load the banded solids in the 416.I kind of hate to work the brass that much, but may need to.

04 February 2009, 06:07

SR4759

quote:
Originally posted by Marty:
Thanks, everyone. I had been trying to seat and crimp in one operation.
I spoke with Wade at Barnes today, and he said that the bands on that bullet are so sharp that good chamfering if not belling are required.
Also, this may be more problematic with a compressed load. I will likely go to another powder.
Does anyone know where I can buy a belling die for the 416? Pacific doesn't make one, and I couldn't get anyone to pick up at RCBS today. I have two sets of dies for my 470, one from CH4 and one from RCBS. The CH4 came as a three die set, one for flaring. The RCBS did not. I may need to get one of these if I want to load the banded solids in the 416.I kind of hate to work the brass that much, but may need to.

If you don't work the brass the bullet will.
Lee makes a universal tapered expander. I don't know if the body ID is large enough for the .416 case body but you could call them. You could probably do it with a long tapered center punch if you are good at manual operations.
If you shoot cast bullets this is a required process to avoid damaging bullets.

04 February 2009, 07:59

kraky

If you have any kind of sizing die with a bigger expander that the brass will go up into you should be able to turn the die down to bump the mouth and then give it another.004 turn down for a flare. That would be about 1/16 of a turn or slightly less.

08 February 2009, 05:27

lb404

RCBS makes an expander die in various sizes. Usually used on the black powder cases but work on anything. I bought one each for 375, 423, 458 for double rifle rounds.

08 February 2009, 18:30

Labman

I've loaded the Barnes 400 Gr. banded solid in my 416 Rigby without any problems. I had to go up to 108 Grs. of H4831 to achieve a velocity of 2400 FPS which is a compressed load. I've never belled the case mouths. I use Lyman dies and do as others have suggested - don't try to crimp and seat in one step. I adjust the dies for no crimp and seat the bullet then back off the seater and adjust the die body for crimping in a separate step. If you load alot for this cartridge you may want to invest in a separate crimp die. It's also important to make sure all you cases are trimmed to the same length to achieve a consistent crimp.

08 February 2009, 19:06

tsturm

quote:
Originally posted by Marty:
I'm just starting to load some test loads for my 416 Rigby. I'm loading Barnes banded solids, 400gr.
After the first half dozen with 98gr RL22, which went well,, as soon as I went up to 100 gr the shoulders started crushing on bullet seating.
I reset the die using the dummy round I had created for crimp and bullet seating depth. No better.
Is there something about loading solids that can cause this to happen? It's my first effort with machined, monometallic bullets. They seem a little stiff to seat.

I started seating all bullets in one step then re adjusting die for crimp in a second step. I have not crushed a case since

02 March 2009, 00:16

Marty

Thanks, everyone! After getting a belling die from RCBS, and seating and crimping in separate operations, the problems are solved. 102gr RL22 gave me 2380fps with 400gr banded solids. Considering the ambient temp was about 30F, that's probably a hot enough hunting load. Groups were a hair over an inch at 100yds.