Guys I've been reloading for about eight years and have always found it interesting to
notice the difference in maximum powder charges between various reloading manuals.
Recently Ive been working up a 180grain partition gold load for my Rem. 700 titanium with
a 22 inch barrel. The powder that groups best for my rifle is IMR 4350. Three of the manuals
that i use show the maximum load of this powder to be between 55 and 56 grains. I found
a load in the A-square reloading manual that goes as high as 60 grains. I've tried this load
and get 2800 fps from a 22 inch barrel and groups around 1 inch, with no signs of excessive
pressure (sticky bolt, cratered primer, scarred cartridge headstamps). My question is: should
I be concerned that I am using a load that is up to 5 grains more than several reloading
manuals list.

Not necessarily. Five grains more seems to be a lot, but ALL RIFLES ARE INDIVIDUALS, and yours seems able to accept such an increase. The best guide to safe loads is repeated loadings with the same brass with no damage to the cases. (Forget the micrometer B.S.) If you can reload those cases and fire them, let's say ten times, and the primer pockets are STILL TIGHT after ten reloadings, I would say the load is OK in your rifle!! But, it might take your buddy's gun apart!! So keep them out of other folks' hands!!

Keep in mind too that there are a lot of antique 30-06's out there that the publishers of load data need to consider. With a rifle of recent (last 40 years or so) manufacture, you'll be able to tolerate more pressure than an old 03A3 could.

IMR 4350 is an excellent powder for the 30-06.

Dan Newberry
green 788

HWH:

Here's a way to find out in about an hour. Take a batch (say ten) of clean pill bottles or other small containers, and put one powder charge in each one, and snap on the lid. Take another new case, do your normal case prep, then load it. Head out to the range w/your press, dies, funnel, bullets, primers and your hand priming tool.

Fire your one round, and load it again paying special attention to how hard the primer seats. Do this over and over until you use up your powder charges. If the primer pockets still feel OK as you get near 10 firings on this one case, you are good to go. If the primer pocket starts to feel loose before 10, then you should reduce a little, If they loosen up around 4 or 5 loadings, then back off more than a little.

As mentioned, you can't rely on case head expansion etc. I've done this with a 338-08 where there is little real data available. It's easy, takes about an hour, and gives you peace of mind when you are in uncharted territory. No problem at all.

JimF

JimF, that's a good approach!!

Most manuals try to adhere to SAAMI pressure standards. The SAAMI standards for the .30-06 are lower than its offspring rounds like .270 and .25-06 by several thousand PSI, for a number of reasons I won't go into here. This means that you can safely exceed the maximum SAAMI pressures (although not necessarily the maximum loads, since the two are not always the same in two different rifle chamber/barrel combinations) in a modern bolt rifle.

Sixty grains of IMR 4350 is a lot to cram into an '06 case behind a 180 grain bullet, especially a long partition-type bullet. While this load could be okay in your rifle, watch those primer pockets closely as suggested, and back off a couple of grains if you find loosening in the first few firings.

My .30-06 takes 57 grains of IMR 4350 to push a 180 at 2800 out of a 24" barrel. I'm sure that it would be complaining with 60 grains. This doesn't mean much, except as one more comparison.

This doesn't have much to do with the original question. Just a variant on JimF's range prep. When I fireform brass for my 280 AI, or am working on a load, I have a block of 270 weatherby brass that I drop powder charges in and write the weight on the case. I don't confuse them with anything because I no longer have the rifle. I bring a neck sizer, a seating die, a small single stage press, and the other misc stuff with me to the range. Bell the mouths of the powder cases and seal with a piece of tissue, or thin paper and the little rubberbands for braces. When you return it is a simple matter to return the powder to the hopper and load the weight that worked the best. It saves pulling bullets which I hate. I would do the pill bottles but the pharmacy here thinks that they are a controlable item, and won't sell them or give them out. Like some crack head is going to package his stash properly.........

Alan

I can tackle the pill bottle problem.... I'm a pharmacist

In my opinion, the ten loadings criterion is pretty conservative. I think if you get three reloads with NO noticeable change in primer seating resistance, you are in the safe range. If you get ten, you are well under maximum pressure for a high intensity cartridge.

I like 62 grains of RL22 with 180 Nosler Partition Protected Point bullets, which makes 2875 in my 22" Ruger 77. I worked up to that load slowly, starting 10% below.

KLN is right on a couple counts.
1: RL22 is AMAZING in a 30-06.. just look at the nosler books for the direction.

2: 10 rounds, (assumed without a chrono) is not enough. I would say that 10 rounds, 3x, over a chrono, without a major change in velocity, shot during the heat of the day, might be a good sign. But, when you are working up to that load, if 1 or 2 grains makes a big change, you are over pressure.
jeffe

Manuals are only basic recipe books. If you open 5 different recipe books you will find at least 10 different recipes for chili. It is the same with reloading manuals.

In my personal experiences I have foudn that IMR-4350 From 44.8 grains to 56.0 grains with the Winchester WLR primer to be the "practical" loading range for your 180's.

My best load was with Nosler 180 partitions, the WLR primer and 55.0 grains of IMR-4350. Chronied at around 2,705 fps at 15' from the muzzle. Accuracy is acceptable at 200 yards with 5-shot groups under 1".

[ 09-12-2002, 18:07: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

IMR 4350 and the 30-06 have been around long enough that we understand them pretty well. The difference is in your rifle.

I use IMR 4350 in some '06's but not in others. My favorite '06 has a Sukalle barrel. (He built guns for Elmer Keith and Jack O'Connor.) It's slow but accurate, and just about every load listed in this thread would be way over max in it.

You're getting good advice here on load development. Any time you go past the published max, you need to tread very lightly because a mistake could kill you. I used to load as hot as some of the guys here but have since backed down a little.

Also, KLN is right about RL-22. I have used it to get good speeds from my '06 with 180 and 220 grain bullets. Hope this helps, Okie John.

I load to dulicate factory pressure. I estimate it by measuring case expansion at the junction of the solid case and the wall. Use a mic and go to four digits. Measure factory expansion and compare it to your reloads. I figure the SAMI standards will provide reasonable performance, safety and gun life.

hotweatherhunter, double check your data

The A-Square manual lists highlighted loads to show how minor changes in powder charge can effect pressures. This is a pi** poor way to show data and component change effects, especially as it`s listed in with the accepted data IMHO, but none the less they do it.

THE LOAD YOUR LOOKING AT IS OVER SAAMI MAX!!
this is stated at the bottom of the chart in your book, DON`T CONTINUE TO USE IT!!

My book shows the max loading to be 58gr of IMR4350 and I personally use 56.5 in my rifle and find it as high as I want to go..

I am concerned with a powder charge that is well past the maximum load listed. I have never had a rifle let go for me but have seen them go for others who had done just what you are doing. Your attitude of I will try a few more grains of powder past max and see what velocity I get from this 22" barrel. Take this old mans advice and readjust your thinking regarding reloading your own ammo. I have over 40 years experience loading my own ammo. You are courting disaster down the road feeding your rifle a steady diet of hot loads. Rifle actions subjected to a steady diet of above maximum loads listed will eventually fail. Even though your rifle shows no signs of excessive pressure one day soon you will fire one of those hot loads and she will go boom in your face. Do your self and your rifle a favor, find an accuarte mid range load within the specs your manual suggests. A maximum load listed should be safe to use but anything above that is a big red danger zone. To get good accuracy in any rifle you must deal with a pressure curve to drive the bullet at the needed velocity to get that accuracy. In your case you have passed that high pressure line drawn by your reloading manual. Hope I don't see a post on this forum about your rifle blowing up in your face.

Hotweatherhunter; The 60 grain load you are using is one I have used in several 30-06's over the years. I would not use it in an old, wheezy firearm, but in MOST modern bolt action and single-shot [Ruger] rifles, it is quite OK. I had a single shot Ruger with a very long throat that would accept 62 grains without any problems, not that I am recommending that load to anyone here!!!
Velocities will tell the tale, usually. If you are getting 2800 fps in a 22" barrel, you are close to the maximum with a 180. 2850 or so in a 24" barrel. The ruger #1 I mentioned with it's 26" tube gave 2925. My alltime favorite powder in the '06 with 180's was old Norma 205, and the later clone, MRP, one obsolete [I have some left], the other difficult to get and expensive.
Reloder 22 works very well, as does RL 19. But all being said, each rifle is an individual, and must be treated as such. Bottom line, be careful!
Don't sacrifice safety in search of that last 30 fps. Regards, Eagleye.

While it is certainly not a bad idea to be conservative in your loading, I must take issue with anyone who makes a blanket statement that it is dangerous to exceed a SAAMI maximum load, or to exceed what is printed in a given reloading manual. Such generalizations make no allowance for two signifgicant factors. The first of these is the indisputable fact that every rifle is an individual, and that what may be an extremely dangerous load in one might be quite safe in another. This has been proved time and again, since the first smokeless powders became available to handloaders in the early part of the last century!! The other factor is the fact that SAAMI maximum allowable pressures for SOME cartridges are much lower than the pressures for cartridges which use essentially the same case design and brass composition. An example was mentioned above, the .30/'06 vs the .270 or .25/06. Two other examples of underloaded cartridges are the 7mm and 8mm Mausers. Of course, the reason for this underloading of these rounds is the fact that there are a lot of older rifles around, (low-numbered 1903 Springfields, which probably should not be fired with ANY ammo, the 1888 Mauser/Commission 8mm's, and 1893-95 Mausers), that can't safely handle higher pressures. Does this mean, then, that when loading for the 7X57mm in a Ruger No. 1, we can't load it to the same pressure levels that are perfectly safe in a 6mm Remington case? I am not advocating overloading ANY cartridge, but am arguing for the use of a little common sense when it comes to deciding what is acceptable practice when you load ammo for YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIFLE!!

HOTWEATHERHUNTER,
I'm with RELOADER66 on this one. I have a few concerns my self.
1) Did you slowly work up to this load or boldly go where no man has gone before?
2) What was the ambient temperture when you shot this load?
3) While I believe each rifle is an individual and are subject to the same loads giving different pressures, I think I'd have a GOOD gunsmith do a chamber cast and check the dimensions.
The reason for these concerns are:
1) Too boldly make such a jump in powder weight is tantamount to a death wish.
2) I've found IMR powders to be temperature sensitive. A safe cold weather load man become dangerous in hot weather. 3) I'd want to verify that I wasn't playing Russian Roulette, but then I Know how much a shrapnel wound can hurt.
I wish you well. Good luck.

Hotweatherhunter. Your handle suggests you hunt in hot weather. So do I. In some 45 yrs. of handloading, let me offer some experiences and advice.
Work up your loads in the hottest weather you will hunt in. Go all the way to the slightest pressure sign, an ejector mark, a sticky bolt, etc. Then back off 5%. Then, I suggest you go lower for the accuracy you want.
Why ? Because in the field, your rifle and ammo will be in the sun. And the pressures will climb. Want to risk a stuck case at the critical momment ?
And for what ? Run some figures on a ballistics program. Does that extra 100-200 fps. make a difference ? Can you really hold that close ? You know, for a 2 inch flatter trajectory at 400 yds.
I can assure you the critters won't know the difference. E