I want to put a 34 or 36 inch Lilja barrel on my 700 action.My ? is is it possable to get 3200 fps with a 240gr Match King from either of these barrel's.Anybody?

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Boyd Heaton
Not so Great White Hunter

Boyd,
Theory, math, physics and some good computer programs indicate that it is possible to achieve 3200 fps with V V N 560 and the 240 grain Sierra using a 36 inch barrel. The pressure can be reduced by using Fastex on the bullets and in the barrel.
Bill

Boyd,
hey, lock'aven - 60 miles north east of me!!!
You shoot 1000 yards?

This will be a Long Range Whitetail 'Black Bear and groundhog gun.I have freind's that shoot at the 1000yard range at Willimsport.I am gonna spend alot of time there when the gun is finished.I have a few places where I can shoot groundhog's at ranges up to 950 yard's.Got one at 642 yard's a few week's ago.The 190gr Match King's I shoot now sure make a mess of them at that distance.

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Boyd Heaton
Not so Great White Hunter

Bill,

I tried Fastex to reduce fouling. I got no improvement. Is there a secret I don't know? I followed directions for cleaning and heating, etc, and used the bullet treatment also.

Boyd,

QuickLoad says that to get 3200 fps with the 240 gr. SMK, even at absolute max pressure (NO SAFETY MARGIN) of 65000 PSI you need to let the COL go out to 3.7 or longer even with a 36 inch barrel.

(BTW 34 inch barrel yields 50 fps less.)

I would say if you are dead set on the 240 grain have the throat custom made for it at a COL of 3.800 inches. This leaves .384 shank seating depth and .640 overall seating depth to the base of the bullet. This is plenty of area for bullet retention with the 240 gr., but it would not be optimal for any other bullet.

You might even go out to 3.850 inches COL.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 06-30-2001).]

Don,
What caliber and cartridge were you using that fouled so badly?

My method for Fastex is to clean the barrel thoroughly so I check it with a bore scope. Then I heat it in my home oven just a pinch hotter that Fastex recommends and shoot the aerosol barrel treatment down the bore while rotating the barrel. I let it cool and then patch it out. I Fastex the bullets in my toaster oven in small batches, since I don't want to heat up the big oven for small amounts.
I have had super results in my varmint barrels and some of the hotrod larger bores. It works even better because my son hates to clean while we're shooting prairie dogs.
Bill

Bill,

The culprit is a factory barrelled M70 in 416Rem. I NECO firelapped it twice without much improvement.

After 500 rounds it started to improve a little, but is still "moderately fouling" with Speer and Hornady, with Barnes it is a disaster.

I had cleaned it dead clean and actually did get a look at the barrel with a borescope. I could see no copper and nothing visibly wrong.

I've tried moly, Fastex, and several other types of snake oil with no effect.

Any suggestions appreciated.

I forgot to say that the thing shoots some great three-shot groups, but as it fouls they march around the target quite a bit.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 07-01-2001).]

Don,
After 500 rounds and all the work that you have gone to, I have only one suggestion and that is to change out that barrel. I can't think of another thing that you haven't done that could possibly show any improvement. I'm all for trying everything that I can before I give up on a barrel but you have gone the whole nine yards. Once with the Neco should have more than sufficient.

Just an after thought: Could the bore and groove be oversized ever so slightly, so that the plasma is blowing by the bullet? Or is it possible that the bullet is stripping?

What about trying some cast bullets at reduced velocities? Do you have access to a bullet trap re: a sand pile or soft backstop so that you could recover some of the cast bullets for bore/groove examination?

Just trying to scheme a little bit more.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Tompkins (edited 07-02-2001).]

Boyd338

WoW... I am not sure what you mean by a "Long Range Whitetail 'Black Bear... gun", but if you believe in your 1000 yard hunting rifles and your ability to shoot big game at that range, maybe you should write a book on heros and include mostly yourself.
I live about 35 miles from a range where 1000 yard and longer matches are held. I have gone to see a few and I am always interested in talking to some of the guys that participate. If you do the same... I am SURE you have learned/been told by now how easy and often it is to throw a shot by 10-30" or so at that range while practicing. You are not alone, there are many people here in the SW that have 300 superzapperswhateverlatestimproved and intentionally set out to "kilt them 600 yard deer" it seems that the further out they make a shot... the bigger the "hero" they are. Interesting this is to me, because I thought just the opposite was true.

Bill,

I shot 350 hard cast bullets (total shots is now closing on 800) It shot good groups with .417 and .418 hard cast lead bullets, and did not lead foul until velocities got close to 2500 fps. I measure .416 or .4165 on my cheap calipers. The lands are now at .4092 according to a pin gauge, with a little taper towards the muzzle (choke).

I have heard of barrels like this, but never had one. A lot of people say that big-bores just copper foul a lot. I'm hoping this one is abnormal!

My main purpose right now is to practice offhand and get accustomed to the .416. It will be four-five years before I get back to Africa, so I have plenty of time to wear this barrel out (probably by cleaning as much as shooting) and get a cut-rifled barrel on it. (Knock wood.)

I have a Krieger-barreled .223 (an AR). It made me a believer in cut rifling after the profile is cut. The thing cleans in three patches and is not picky about the bullet or load. It's never shot a ten-shot groups at 100 yards bigger than and inch with any handload I've put through it. It likes bullets from 55 to 80 grains. I'm hoping a 416 barrel will be as forgiving.

Don