I finally got a set of 8X57 dies and started playing with the very nice "sporterized" (cut down military stock and nice blueing job) M98K Mauser that my brother gave me. It has an excellent bore. The chamber dimensions and headspace are tight as the cases I formed from once fired military 30-06 brass would give slight resistance when "camming" the bolt home. I believe this was due to "spring back" of the brass as the same cases fired in the Mauser chamber did not exibit this trait. With the die screwed all the way down to the shell holder, the die would just lack bumping the shoulder after the cases were fired in the Mauser chamber. COL had to be kept to 3.150 to keep the bullet off of the rifling lands. (no throat erosion) This is a very sound M98K Mauser

I worked up to the "max" load listed in Noslers #5 manual for the 180gr Ballistic Tip. (47gr IMR 4064) Velocity was in the mid 2600s, with SD of 23fps. As there were no pressure signs, I upped the load by 2grs and was pleasantly surprized by the performance. The velocity was now 2800fps average, and the SD had shrunk to <10fps. The primers (CCI large rifle) look fine, and there are no signs of excess pressure. I have reloaded these cases several times and they are in good shape with no sign of loose primer pockets of need of excessive trimming.

I realize that a lot of 8X57 data is kept conservative over the concern that it may be used in an arm of questionable soundness. Given a sound M98 large ring action, wouldn't the brass be the limiting factor? If 270Win can be safely loaded to 60,000 PSI, then wouldn't this also be a safe level for the 8X57 in this arm? Brenneke lists a 196gr bullet in excess of 2700fps in a factory loading. Given this level of performance in a 196gr factory loading it would seem that 2800fps with a 180gr bullet would be reasonable.

It is the low SD that I am most impressed with. It has been my experience that when IMR 4064 is loaded to a slightly compressed state in a medium sized case, (7mm-08, 8mm-06 Imp, 8X57 etc.) SD and group sizes tend to get smaller. This rifle still wears the issue sights and military trigger, so I really can't judge group size, although group size is very good considering. (Minute of beer can?)

Any opinions on the viability of this load? Would anyone care to run a "Quickload" on this one to see what the pressure level is?

8X57 JS Mauser
Barrel length 23 3/4"
COL 3.150"
Bullet length 1.275" (Nosler 180gr Ballistic Tip)
49gr (compressed) IMR 4064
2800fps average SD 9.3fps

[ 08-08-2002, 23:35: Message edited by: wildcat junkie ]

wc -

quote:

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It has been my axperience that when IMR 4064 is loaded to a slightly compressed state in a medium sized case, (7mm-08, 8mm-06 Imp, 8X57 etc.) SD and group sizes tend to get smaller.

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I've noticed the same thing with my 7-08 and 140's and 308 using 150 grain bullets. Hmmm.

R-WEST

wildcat junkie, you are absolutely right about thwe 8X57mm JS cartridge. In a strong action, with a .323" bore, there is no reason why it could not be loaded to as high a pressure level as the .270 Win., .243, or .308. The results you obtained support this observation. In Germany, there were loads which gave up to 2650 FPS with 198-grain bullets. This is equal to a heavy 200-grain .30/'06 load any day!! We never appreciated this cartridge here. Is it because it was an "enemy" load? We always ran down the Arisakas also. Same reason??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eldeguello:
In Germany, there were loads which gave up to 2650 FPS with 198-grain bullets. [/QB][/QUOTE

Actually, I believe you are referring to Normas loading. The Brenneke load propels a 196gr bullet nearly 100fps faster

It would be interesting to know what the pressure is on those babies.

I just did a search on Altavista (8mm mauser).

I found the "K98k Mauser page", they listed the following info on the Norma and Brenneke loads

Norma "Premium soft point" 2526fps with 196gr bullet.

Brenneke "Brenneke Ideal" 2732fps with 198gr bullet.

Comparing my load of 2800fps with a 180gr bullet to the Brenneke load, it would seem to be somewhat conservative.

Given this information, and the consistant velocity obtained with the slightly comppressed IMR4064 load, I think I will stick with it.

If the Germans got 2850 fps 150 gr from the 8X57mm in 1905, that technology seems to have been lost if one reads modern Speer or IMR loadings.

Clark and Wildcat Junkie,
The IMR and Speer loads listed in the manuel are indeed wimpy. They reflect the fear of litigation if a fool puts a .323 bullet down an old .318 bore. The original Mausers were chambered for .318 (round nose bullets) until 1905 when they introduced the spitzer bullet. The bore was then increased to .323. The two world wars resulted in many rifles of both calibers being imported to the USA. Any Mauser in good condition w/ .323 bore should handle 50000 to 60000 cup. Those wimpy loads offered by IMR and Speer are around 34000 cup. As always, start with reduced loads and work upward.

Shooting circa 40's Turk surplus 155 gr. steel jacketed ammo -- "green bandolier" -- I'm getting 2965 fps mean for 20 shot strings. This from a 29" bbl. 98/22. According to all the manuals published these days this is extremely "hot."

Personally, I wouldn't trust any sort of software/calculations program to give me operating pressure. There are just too many variables involved to accurately predict what is happening in the bore.

I had a 1938 Turk that got drilled and tapped all the way though without taking the barrel off first. A 6-48 hole into the chamber 1/4" forward of the web.

The odd thing was, it would still shoot some handloads and just jam up a little bit with a brass bulge going in the hole. Up to 27 gr IMR4895 and 200 gr it was ok. In other rifles, the bolt jams at 52 gr. But when I put the Turk surplus ammo in the holy hole, it blew a clean brass plug right out the top.