I read this quote from rootbeer and it got me a little concerned about the ball powders that I am using, especially in my auto-loaders.

quote:

Use an extruded powder. Extruded powders do the majority of their burning in the case. Ball powders achieve their maximum heat in the barrel, about midway down, which tends to shorten barrel life considerably

I contacted Johan Loubser at Western Powders about the ill effects of "BallPowders" and this is his reply.


Steve,

This is not true.

Ballpowder is actually better for barrels than extruded powders.

Comparing powders of equal burn rate it is well known that Ballpowder leaves more residue and fouling.

As a result a microscopic layer is deposited in the micro pores of the barrel protecting it against the thermal energy. (Two essential solid remainders are tin (metallic) and carbon.

This was proven by the military in extensive tests involving literally hundreds of thousands of rounds fired through machine guns under the most extreme conditions.

Throat erosion with the extruded powders was more severe than with the ballpowder.

Since the advent of ball powders the barrel live of military weapons have greatly improved.



Although ballpowder being a double base with added NG have a higher energy the truth is that the difference in heat of explosion is negligible.

This is due to the design and more advanced coating procedures involved with double base powders.

A Ballpowder of equal burn-rate to an extruded powder, as measured in a laboratory instrument called a closed vessel, will require more powder to achieve the same performance as with extruded. This illustrates the higher efficiency of the extruded and the higher Heat of explosion and thus higher thermal input into the barrel.



The negative of ballpowder is the higher level of fouling which accumulate in gas systems requiring more cleaning. (Which lead to the initial “M16 problem†in South East Asia).

However, as far as barrel wear (mostly the throat/leade area) the ballpowder by far improves upon extruded powders.

It is true that extruded are more efficient powders, this is due to its progressive burning characteristic, leaving less residue therefore there is no layer protecting the barrel.



Although extruded powder burns more progressive, the statement that it all burn in the case is totally untrue.

Regarding Pressure vs displacement, the same Force curve applies to both powder types with slight differences which will be negligible re all the “effective all burn pointâ€.

Interesting, if true. It does sound a bit like Microsoft telling users of their programs, "That's not a bug; it's a feature."

Ball powder has been traditionally harder to ignite (which is the reason for magnum primers with it in the winter). I wouldn't think "hard to ignite" was the same thing as "burns further down the barrel," but it might, I suppose.

FWIW, Ramshot powder is spherical, and is supposed to be cleaner than some, and it does call for more powder weight than I typically use with extruded powders.

Jaywalker

Back in 1981 in the NRA's excellent book Handloading, William Davis (the editor) could state that ball powders were less erosive than stick powders. I recall reading somewhere else (I don't have it in my notes, sorry) that while the double base ball powders do have a slightly higher flame temperature, the smooth little balls simply don't dig at the hot, softened barrel metal as badly as the sticks do.

That comment about ball powders having max heat midway down the barrel simply isn't correct. The max heat comes at max pressure, which occurs after an inch or two of bullet travel.

Ball powders need heavy deterrent coatings to get them to burn at the desired speed, and this can make them finicky to light. Other than that, they have numerous advantages.

This Chevy vs Ford argument has been going on as long as I've been reading on gun forums. This one burns hotter no that one burns hotter. That one wears less no mine does.

Food for thought.

My gunsmith told me to use extruded powder in the $562 barrel of my $3700 rifle for the above reason. He's been smithin' for 45 years and has had his rifles hold six world records at one time. I believe everything he tells me about guns and shooting. You are free to use whatever powder you want, but I will do as I am told. Bob would slap me silly if I disobeyed...

I have switched to WC-872 Military Surplus Ball Powder for my large overbore magnums and like it much better. More velocity with less pressure, and best of all they flow thru a measure beautifully without all that crunching. The new short cut extruded powders will improve on this, but I'll stick with what works. Bill T.

A fine gunsmith and shooter can believe misinformation, too.

My three cents: You can look this up if you are so inclined. I have.


Ball Double Base - Coolest. All ball is double base meaning it has nitro added. Nitro adds energy but since Ball has such a large amount of deterents, it burns cooler. The Nitro is added to surface, not through out. This powder is dirtier and more finicky than extruded. Also temperature sensitive, especially the slow burners. This powder can age where it develops more peak pressure but less velocity over time.

Extruded Single Base (no Nitro) - Hotter than Ball. Also grain geometry leads to more abrasion. Since grain size helps control burn rate the grains tend to be bigger as burning rate slows down. All IMR is single base. Relatively clean. Not finicky. Tends to be the least temperature sensitive although slow burners are somewhat. Absorbs moisture and has shortest shelf life since it depends upon stabilzer to prevent degradation.

Extruded Double Base (Nitro added)- Hotter than Ball. Alliant Reloder powder (7, 15, 19,22) along with Norma rifle powders. Grain geometry falls between ball and single base in terms of abrasion. This powder burns cleaner than ball. Nitro is mixed throughout grain. Tends to be more temperature sensitive than single base. This powder tends to be more complex in terms of coatings. Minimal moisture absorbtion and longest shelf life due to nitro which acts as stabilzer.

So you see there are advantages and disadvantages depending upon your application.

quote:

Originally posted by Ricochet:
A fine gunsmith and shooter can believe misinformation, too.

Absolutely true.....

There is no reason to assume any of the information stated about differences of ball powders and extruded powders has merit.....much of this is old wives tales started back before Hector was a pup.....and Hector died in the early 1900s.

This includes the theory that ball powders are harded to ignite.